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Abortion Abortion Forum - A complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue


View Poll Results: Would you still support abortion if you were convinced that abortions kill a Child?
Yes, I probably would 5 55.56%
No, I probably would not 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 31st, 2016, 05:53 PM   #121
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here
If you can find anything in what I wrote that leads you conclude that I think our Constitution or Supreme Court sees a tumor as a person? Your reading comprehension has failed you miserably.

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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:07 PM   #122
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Walk into a hospital, find someone who is brain-dead, pull out a .45 and shoot them in the heart, and you will be prosecuted for murder.
go to a hospital, find a person who is brain dead, complete the necessary paperwork and phone the right people, and the brain dead person will be cut into a dozen pieces which will be flown to various locations and transplanted into other people. nobody will be prosecuted, nobody will seriously question the ethics of this decision.

g to a hospital, find a person with some measure of brain activity and try the same process and you will either be arrested or referred to the hospitals psychiatry department.

brain activity is crucial to determining whether a human being is a human being.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:09 PM   #123
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go to a hospital, find a person who is brain dead, complete the necessary paperwork and phone the right people, and the brain dead person will be cut into a dozen pieces which will be flown to various locations and transplanted into other people. nobody will be prosecuted, nobody will seriously question the ethics of this decision.

g to a hospital, find a person with some measure of brain activity and try the same process and you will either be arrested or referred to the hospitals psychiatry department.

brain activity is crucial to determining whether a human being is a human being.
That doesn't address my post or its premise. The charge would be murder for killing a human being.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:11 PM   #124
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brain activity is crucial to determining whether a human being is a human being.
I know that you want that to be true. However as a matter of (legal) reality. It simply is NOT true.

Consider the recent (more recent than Roe) courts rulings on children born with NO cerebral cortex. They have NO capacity for human thought, feelings, dreams, etc. Yet they are LEGALLY regarded as human beings and are equally entitled to the same protections of our laws that YOU are.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:11 PM   #125
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nobody is denying this is what happens. nobody is denying that the fertilised egg, the zygote, the embryo, is human tissue. it is, of course it is. the majority of the time such an embryo dies naturally, only a minority of conceptions are successful. we dont mourn a spontaneous lost zygote as a death. we might mourn for the lost potential, for the lost opportunity, but not because a person died.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:27 PM   #126
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i also find it fun to introduce random supreme court cases into a debate to try and enforce my point or redirect the argument.
If it supports your arguments. Why not?

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yes, i think that the marriage equality act was activism and i disagree w/ the ruling but not for reasons you may think. i do not believe that the government should be involved in marriage at all and that is what i think they should have said.
Okay, so when it comes to the allegation of people using the Government to "force their views" onto others. . . does it ever occur to you, they might be talking about how the Gay Rights activists used the Government to force gay marriage onto the rest of the country?

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this is also how i feel about the abortion issue. if you don't like abortions, cool don't get one.
I wonder if you can figure out the problem with that argument on your own.

I'm guessing you can't since you are the one who threw it out there. So, maybe I can help you see the flaw in it by taking that same logic and applying it to other human situations.

"If you don't like child molestations? Cool. Don't commit one"

Is that an acceptable argument to you?

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as to your deflections about abortions being unconstitutional, if that is not your premise then what is?
How the fuck did you get that ^^^ from this: "No new laws would need to be passed to make abortions illegal. The only thing it takes for that is for the United States Supreme Court to reverse their ruling on Roe v Wade and for them to rule that personhood and Constitutional rights 'begin at conception.' That's it. "

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i was under the impression that you wanted a wad of cells to be declared a person so you could then claim that it had constitutional rights. was i wrong?
You were wrong to think it was a deflection for sure.

I haven't strayed from that position in more than 20 Years.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:30 PM   #127
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If you can find anything in what I wrote that leads you conclude that I think our Constitution or Supreme Court sees a tumor as a person? Your reading comprehension has failed you miserably.
miserable is your deflections and your ability to follow a train of thought, apparently.

where are you coming from?

what is the reasoning behind your argument?
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:36 PM   #128
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As a student or even as an adult, have you ever examined an illustration of the human life cycle? Did you have sex ed and did you not cover sexual reproduction in biology class?


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nobody is denying this is what happens. nobody is denying that the fertilised egg, the zygote, the embryo, is human tissue. it is, of course it is.
What you deny is that it is anything MORE than that.

Correct?

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the majority of the time such an embryo dies naturally, only a minority of conceptions are successful.
Since when does a shorted lifespan of a creature (any creature) determine what that creature is?

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we dont mourn a spontaneous lost zygote as a death.
Are you claiming that personhood is contingent upon whether or not an individual will be mourned if they pass?

If not, then you should see (and admit) that argument is a red herring / non sequitur to the debate.


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we might mourn for the lost potential, for the lost opportunity, but not because a person died.
See above.

If society's willingness or ability to mourn the loss of an individual is not a prerequisite for personhood - then your argument based on the lack of 'mourning' is a non starter.

Last edited by Chuz Life; January 31st, 2016 at 06:40 PM.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:39 PM   #129
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i was under the impression that you wanted a wad of cells to be declared a person so you could then claim that it had constitutional rights. was i wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
I haven't strayed from that position in more than 20 Years.
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
miserable is your deflections and your ability to follow a train of thought, apparently.

where are you coming from?

what is the reasoning behind your argument?
Dude.

Push away from the BONG!
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:41 PM   #130
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Okay, so when it comes to the allegation of people using the Government to "force their views" onto others. . . does it ever occur to you, they might be talking about how the Gay Rights activists used the Government to force gay marriage onto the rest of the country?


I haven't strayed from that position in more than 20 Years.
im guessing that you don't understand my perspective. if the state wasn't involved in marriage, then how would anything be forced upon you?

I'm sorry that in 20 years you haven't come up w/ a more valid argument besides "get rid of roe because i just don't like it"

the kids in JV debate come up w/ better arguments than that
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