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Abortion Abortion Forum - A complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue


View Poll Results: Would you still support abortion if you were convinced that abortions kill a Child?
Yes, I probably would 5 55.56%
No, I probably would not 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
i completely agree though i don't feel that laws are needed to restrict them we just need to allow the medical community the right to refuse any abortion at any time. i consider drs in general to be logical people and for the most part would tell a woman to kick rocks if she were about to pop, and be shunned for preforming it otherwise
thats pretty much what happens. i know there are a few mavericks who do late term abortions, partial birth abortions, etc, but despite the fireworks from the prolife crowd, they are few and far between. most doctors would argue like i have, if a woman presents asking for an abortion at 8 months, they would be shown the door. there would have to be a compelling reason, more likely a perfect storm of multiple compelling reasons, why an abortion would be considered at such a time.

i have once in my career been involved in a case like this. it was a constellation of bizarre events, medical ineptness, human error (not on her part) and rare medical conditions, that lead to an abortion at 8 months. everybody involved agreed that abortion was the best option, and everyone agreed it was a tragedy for all concerned. it was not considered a good outcome, it was the least bad one.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post



I understand your position. BUT! Do you see how the Constitution (as it is currently written) would not allow for that? That is - (as the Supreme Court said) once the fetus is declared a "person" they become Constitutionally entitled to the EQUAL protections of our laws.







That's a fair point but you don't seem to consider that the child about to be aborted has skin and rights too.



HD & Wolf?
you are still stuck on if the growths rights trump those of the host. attempting to twist and turn words so they fit your agenda is shady IMO. the work of statists that i thought was mostly used by the socialists. you wish to call a tiny cell a person so you can use the constitution to further your agenda i feel is dirty pool. using the state to force your beliefs on others is wrong, and proves the weakness of your agenda. but statists gunna state be them wanting to tell me how many rounds i can fire w/o reloading or that my wife has to gestate an unwanted lifeform inside of her.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
I thought you said your views were essentially the same.
they are. however, i am not Nwolfe35 and i do not presume to speak for him. you have asked him questions, i will await his answer, and follow your discussion.

Quote:
So, once the interview is under way, you can add your comments then as you see fit.
i will. please feel free to ask me any direct questions also. i am very happy to answer. i will try to respect the 1-1 nature of your debate with Nwolfe35. i apologise in advance if i do get overinvolved, it is not my intent.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #54
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you are still stuck on if the growths rights trump those of the host. attempting to twist and turn words so they fit your agenda is shady IMO. the work of statists that i thought was mostly used by the socialists. you wish to call a tiny cell a person so you can use the constitution to further your agenda i feel is dirty pool. using the state to force your beliefs on others is wrong, and proves the weakness of your agenda. but statists gunna state be them wanting to tell me how many rounds i can fire w/o reloading or that my wife has to gestate an unwanted lifeform inside of her.
A pregnant woman is not a host because a fetus is not a parasite. To be a parasite, a fetus would need to be a different species and cause harm, unless it is a jellyfish.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:26 PM   #55
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you are still stuck on if the growths rights trump those of the host. attempting to twist and turn words so they fit your agenda is shady IMO.
I am coming from the same point of view that the Supreme Court was coming from - when THEY said that "once the fetus is declared a person, the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

Those are not MY words, they are the words of the Justices on the court.

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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
the work of statists that i thought was mostly used by the socialists. you wish to call a tiny cell a person so you can use the constitution to further your agenda i feel is dirty pool.
My "agenda" is only to see that all rights are equally protected as is established by our Constitution.


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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
using the state to force your beliefs on others is wrong, and proves the weakness of your agenda.
1. It is not my belief that a child in the womb is a human being and therefore entitled to the rights of a human being. It's a biological fact in conjunction with what the Constitution says.

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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
but statists gunna state be them wanting to tell me how many rounds i can fire w/o reloading or that my wife has to gestate an unwanted lifeform inside of her.
Yet another way I am not a Statist.

I actually vehemently oppose gun control.

You should be a bit more careful when making your assumptions about people.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:31 PM   #56
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A pregnant woman is not a host because a fetus is not a parasite. To be a parasite, a fetus would need to be a different species and cause harm, unless it is a jellyfish.

host1
hōst/Submit
noun
1.
a person who receives or entertains other people as guests.
"a dinner-party host"
synonyms: party-giver, hostess, entertainer
"the host greeted the guests"
antonyms: guest
a person, place, or organization that holds and organizes an event to which others are invited.
"Innsbruck once played host to the Winter Olympics"
an area in which particular living things are found.
"Australia is host to some of the world's most dangerous animals"
humorous
the landlord or landlady of a pub.
"mine host raised his glass of whiskey"
the moderator or emcee of a television or radio program.
synonyms: presenter, anchor, anchorman, anchorwoman, announcer, master of ceremonies, ringmaster; informalemcee
"the host of a TV series"
2.
BIOLOGY
an animal or plant on or in which a parasite or commensal organism lives.
a living cell in which a virus multiplies.
noun: host cell; plural noun: host cells
a person or animal that has received transplanted tissue or a transplanted organ.
3.
a computer that mediates multiple access to databases mounted on it or provides other services to a computer network.
verb
verb: host; 3rd person present: hosts; past tense: hosted; past participle: hosted; gerund or present participle: hosting
1.
act as host at (an event) or for (a television or radio program).
synonyms: give, have, hold, throw, put on, provide, arrange, organize More
2.
store (a website or other data) on a server or other computer so that it can be accessed over the Internet.

Host | Definition of Host by Merriam-Webster


Commensal: 1. Living in a relationship in which one organism derives food or other benefits from another organism without hurting or helping it. Commensal bacteria are part of the normal flora in the mouth.
2. An intimate relationship. The Norway rat, roof rat, and house mouse are considered commensal rodents because of their intimate relationships with humans.

Commensal definition - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
A pregnant woman is not a host because a fetus is not a parasite. To be a parasite, a fetus would need to be a different species and cause harm, unless it is a jellyfish.
true, however a woman, whether pregnant or not, is also an individual with her own opinions and preferences and choices and she ought to be able to decide what her body does and does not do.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
host1
hōst/Submit
noun
1.
a person who receives or entertains other people as guests.
"a dinner-party host"
synonyms: party-giver, hostess, entertainer
"the host greeted the guests"
antonyms: guest
a person, place, or organization that holds and organizes an event to which others are invited.
"Innsbruck once played host to the Winter Olympics"
an area in which particular living things are found.
"Australia is host to some of the world's most dangerous animals"
humorous
the landlord or landlady of a pub.
"mine host raised his glass of whiskey"
the moderator or emcee of a television or radio program.
synonyms: presenter, anchor, anchorman, anchorwoman, announcer, master of ceremonies, ringmaster; informalemcee
"the host of a TV series"
2.
BIOLOGY
an animal or plant on or in which a parasite or commensal organism lives.
a living cell in which a virus multiplies.
noun: host cell; plural noun: host cells
a person or animal that has received transplanted tissue or a transplanted organ.
3.
a computer that mediates multiple access to databases mounted on it or provides other services to a computer network.
verb
verb: host; 3rd person present: hosts; past tense: hosted; past participle: hosted; gerund or present participle: hosting
1.
act as host at (an event) or for (a television or radio program).
synonyms: give, have, hold, throw, put on, provide, arrange, organize More
2.
store (a website or other data) on a server or other computer so that it can be accessed over the Internet.

Host | Definition of Host by Merriam-Webster


Commensal: 1. Living in a relationship in which one organism derives food or other benefits from another organism without hurting or helping it. Commensal bacteria are part of the normal flora in the mouth.
2. An intimate relationship. The Norway rat, roof rat, and house mouse are considered commensal rodents because of their intimate relationships with humans.

Commensal definition - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors
That doesn't describe the relationship between a mother and her unborn baby. Biologist do not classify a mother as a host or a baby as a parasite.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
A pregnant woman is not a host because a fetus is not a parasite. To be a parasite, a fetus would need to be a different species and cause harm, unless it is a jellyfish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
true, however a woman, whether pregnant or not, is also an individual with her own opinions and preferences and choices and she ought to be able to decide what her body does and does not do.
No-one has the right to violate the rights of another's body with their body do they?
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
I am coming from the same point of view that the Supreme Court was coming from - when THEY said that "once the fetus is declared a person, the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

Those are not MY words, they are the words of the Justices on the court.



My "agenda" is only to see that all rights are equally protected as is established by our Constitution.




1. It is not my belief that a child in the womb is a human being and therefore entitled to the rights of a human being. It's a biological fact in conjunction with what the Constitution says.



Yet another way I am not a Statist.

I actually vehemently oppose gun control.

You should be a bit more careful when making your assumptions about people.
it is your agenda, your aviator, your name here, and in every thread it has been a focal point. to say otherwise would be disingenuous. feel free to spin things anyway you wish. you want to use the state to impose your belief system on others, therefore statist. you want to create laws that do not exist in their present state. more laws. more government. less laws. less government. so don't think that i need to tread lightly when it comes to the fact that you want the state to create more laws limiting the liberties and freedoms of the citizens.
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