Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Abortion

Abortion Abortion Forum - A complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue


View Poll Results: Would you still support abortion if you were convinced that abortions kill a Child?
Yes, I probably would 5 55.56%
No, I probably would not 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

Thanks Tree128Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 30th, 2016, 09:48 PM   #61
Celebrating diversity
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
That doesn't describe the relationship between a mother and her unborn baby. Biologist do not classify a mother as a host or a baby as a parasite.

you wish to use biological definitions in a discussion about abortion?
Sabcat is online now  
Old January 30th, 2016, 09:51 PM   #62
Self Banned
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
it is your agenda, your aviator, your name here, and in every thread it has been a focal point. to say otherwise would be disingenuous. feel free to spin things anyway you wish.
I am only "defending the truth" about what a child is, when their lives and rights begin or should begin (according to the Constitution) and I only do so as a defense of their lives and their rights in keeping with the Constitution.

If you consider that to be a Statist nefarious agenda?

You are the one doing the twisting. Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
you want to use the state to impose your belief system on others, therefore statist.
No. I want the State to adhere to the (equal rights and equal protections of the laws) ideas set forth in the Constitution already. And I want the State to remedy the disparity it has created with laws that contradict one another as Roe v Wade conflicts with our Fetal Homicide Laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
you want to create laws that do not exist in their present state. more laws. more government. less laws. less government.
False. See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
so don't think that i need to tread lightly when it comes to the fact that you want the state to create more laws limiting the liberties and freedoms of the citizens.
No one has the right to violate the rights of others. Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose.
Chuz Life is offline  
Old January 30th, 2016, 09:51 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
No-one has the right to violate the rights of another's body with their body do they?
this is a general principle that we try to stick to. but there are instances where we dont follow it. during surgery, the surgeon might make decisions on the stop without consulting the patient, decision that have not been discussed prior, that will have consequences for the patient, effectively the surgeon violates the patients body and changes it without their permission. small children get given vaccines that they dont like having, that they get anyway as they are not given a choice, even if the clinic nurse has to hold them down. sometimes i am outside and i inhale second hand cigarette smoke from someone nearby having a cigarette, it is not my choice to inhale cigarette smoke, its a violation if someone else makes me. i dont wish to listen to my nieghbours music, but he gives me no choice. the environmentalist down the road doesnt want me to drive my polluting car to work but i do it anyway and pollute his air against his wishes. the principle that we are individuals and we have rights as individuals and those rights are inviolable is a nice principle, in reality its a goal we strive towards but do not always achieve. in a society of many different individuals with different desires and wishes, its not surprising that they will sometimes clash.
Thanks from imaginethat
hot dragon is offline  
Old January 30th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #64
Commie Exposer
 
Jimmyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 38,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
you wish to use biological definitions in a discussion about abortion?
I am just pointing out that using the term "host" falls under fallacies of definition.
Thanks from Sabcat
Jimmyb is offline  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #65
Celebrating diversity
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
I am only "defending the truth" about what a child is, when their lives and rights begin or should begin (according to the Constitution) and I only do so as a defense of their lives and their rights in keeping with the Constitution.

If you consider that to be a Statist nefarious agenda?

You are the one doing the twisting. Not me.



No. I want the State to adhere to the (equal rights and equal protections of the laws) ideas set forth in the Constitution already. And I want the State to remedy the disparity it has created with laws that contradict one another as Roe v Wade conflicts with our Fetal Homicide Laws.



False. See above.



No one has the right to violate the rights of others. Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose.
yes, i do consider attempting to pass laws to force women to have unwanted pregnancies to be a statist agenda. i see it no different than i do when the gun grabbers spew their garbage. to think that you know better how to run your neighbors life than they do and need the state to help enforce your beliefs that is the hive mind, statist.
Thanks from Lyzza
Sabcat is online now  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:06 PM   #66
Celebrating diversity
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
I am just pointing out that using the term "host" falls under fallacies of definition.
it dosent in the pure sense of the word. re read the definition. though i do like to use parasite in reference to a fetus, that one is a bit off
Sabcat is online now  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:08 PM   #67
Self Banned
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
No-one has the right to violate the rights of another's body with their body do they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
this is a general principle that we try to stick to. but there are instances where we dont follow it. during surgery, the surgeon might make decisions on the stop without consulting the patient, decision that have not been discussed prior, that will have consequences for the patient, effectively the surgeon violates the patients body and changes it without their permission.
And we have laws against medical malpractice for when that trust is abused.

Correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
small children get given vaccines that they dont like having, that they get anyway as they are not given a choice, even if the clinic nurse has to hold them down.
And there are plenty of people who argue that those vaccines ARE in fact a violation of children's rights. You should consider googling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
sometimes i am outside and i inhale second hand cigarette smoke from someone nearby having a cigarette, it is not my choice to inhale cigarette smoke, its a violation if someone else makes me.
The laws already address this and if you can make a case for someone FORCING you to breathe their smoke, you will probably win your case against them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
i dont wish to listen to my nieghbours music, but he gives me no choice.
The onus is on you to call the police and report the nuisance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
the environmentalist down the road doesnt want me to drive my polluting car to work but i do it anyway and pollute his air against his wishes.
If he feels HIS rights are being violated by his neighbor driving their car, we have a legal/ judicial system to deal with that. We do not have the same to act in the defense of children in the womb. So, the man breathing the bad exhaust is being afforded HIS right to the equal protections of our laws and children in the womb? Not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
the principle that we are individuals and we have rights as individuals and those rights are inviolable is a nice principle, in reality its a goal we strive towards but do not always achieve. in a society of many different individuals with different desires and wishes, its not surprising that they will sometimes clash.
Our Constitution does not allow for anyone to be deprived of their rights except by way of due process and children in the womb are not being afforded that right.
Chuz Life is offline  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #68
Self Banned
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
yes, i do consider attempting to pass laws to force women to have unwanted pregnancies to be a statist agenda.
You are twisting things again.

I nor anyone else is trying to force women to have unwanted pregnancies.

If a woman is pregnant - she already HAS the pregnancy - whether she wanted it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
i see it no different than i do when the gun grabbers spew their garbage.
I hope you use better logic and arguments in your defense of gun rights than you do in denying rights to prenatal children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
to think that you know better how to run your neighbors life than they do and need the state to help enforce your beliefs that is the hive mind, statist.
My opposition to abortion is no more tantamount to trying to run my neighbors life than your support for the right to keep and bear arms is.

I wonder if you support any laws against crimes against children at all. Do you support laws against rape and molestation?

If you do - then you are just as much as Statist as you claim I am.

And you are also a hypocrite for denying the same kinds of protections to children in the womb.

Last edited by Chuz Life; January 31st, 2016 at 06:31 AM.
Chuz Life is offline  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:40 PM   #69
Celebrating diversity
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post



I hope you use better logic and arguments in your defense of gun rights than you do in denying rights to prenatal children.



My opposition to abortion is no more tantamount to trying to run my neighbors life than your support for the right to keep and bear arms is.

I wonder if you support any laws against crimes against children at all. Do you support laws against rape and molestation?

If you do - then you are just as much as Statist as you claim I am.

And you are also a hypocrite for denying the same kinds of protections to children in the womb.
trying to equate if i do or do not support laws that are already being enforced to you wishing to enforce new ones is not a great attempt.

what gives you the right to force another person to host another lifeform?
Thanks from Lyzza
Sabcat is online now  
Old January 30th, 2016, 10:46 PM   #70
Self Banned
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
trying to equate if i do or do not support laws that are already being enforced to you wishing to enforce new ones is not a great attempt.
I'm not seeking to enforce new laws, homey.

I am pointing out inconsistencies and hypocrisies in the way the ones we already have are being selectively enforced by people like yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
what gives you the right to force another person to host another lifeform?
I am not for "forcing" pregnancy on anyone.

However, I do feel that consent to sex it at least a consent to pregnancy and I believe the Supreme Court Justices might hold that view as well.

What else could they have been hinting at when they said "once a fetus is ruled a person, the case for abortion becomes near impossible to make?"
Chuz Life is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Abortion

Tags
abortion, child, chuz life, proponents, question



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Abortion Rights Leader Nails Hypocrisy Of Anti-Abortion Activists LongWinded Abortion 3 December 14th, 2015 04:06 PM
10-Year-Old Rape Victim Denied Abortion: The Horrific Realities of Abortion Bans LongWinded Abortion 32 December 7th, 2015 02:02 PM
Proponents Say They Have Signatures to Put Pot Legalization to a Vote in Calif. intangible child Money and Finance 0 December 14th, 2009 07:43 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.