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Abortion Abortion Forum - A complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue


View Poll Results: Would the person who connected themself to the child obligated for the full 9 Months?
Yes - They would be 2 50.00%
No - They would not be 2 50.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:08 PM   #21
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if a woman gets pregnant and it is before 20 weeks, so there is not a functioning brain in the foetus, the foetus is living human tissue but it is not able to even be aware of itself let alone feel, experience, or react in any way, whats the ethical problem with ending the pregnancy at that stage?

this was not a rhetorical question. answers are invited.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:29 PM   #22
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Lawmakers are often very quick to point out that pregnancy and the physical relationship between a pregnant woman and the child within her is unlike any other set of circumstances in society.

Sometimes in trying to communicate a point being made, lawmakers (and others) will use a 'hypothetical,' an analogy or an imagined situation to argue a point. Judith Jarvis Thompson's "Violinst" (defense of abortion) is a well known and often used example of this.

In Thompson's analogy, she asked her readers to imagine yourself waking up in bed - attached to a world famous violinist. . . and then her hypothetical comparisons to a pregnancy goes on from there.

Thompson's Violinist analogy presumes that both people involved are "persons" with rights. So does mine. However, this analogy is slightly different from hers.

I would like for you to imagine two people (any two people male or female) taking it upon themself to somehow gain access to a clinic or hospital room where an almost lifeless child is being cared for.

Imagine the child is in a coma and is completely unaware. The child has no measurable brain waves to indicate any level of self awareness, No ability for thought, No sense of pain, etc.

Please assume in this hypothetical that it's possible that the child never will awake from this condition. It's uncertain.

Now imagine (much like Thompson did) that the visitors choose to engage in an activity where there is a possibility (however slim) for a situation where one of them might end up with the child's body connected to their own body.

The connection is in such a manner that the child must remain so connected for at least NINE months, else it will likely die.

Again, if the connection is severed before nine months, the child will die and possibly the other person could die as well.

The poll question is simple.

In this above situation. . . If the child becomes connected as a direct result of the risks that the visitors took, would the person who managed to connect themself to the child be obligated to remain so connected for the nine months that they have physically committed to - by placing themself AND the child into that situation?"

Yes or No?

Please read carefully before taking the poll.
So in your analogy, you ask if a person is obligated to give up 20 years of their life to someone they have never met, because that person "needs their help".....

The answer is NO!
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:39 PM   #23
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So in your analogy, you ask if a person is obligated to give up 20 years of their life to someone they have never met, because that person "needs their help".....

The answer is NO!
Wow. So much fail in your response.

It was for nine months not 20 years and it was not that they never met - it's about the consequence of a risk that they knowingly took.

Way to completely miss the analogy.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:48 PM   #24
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Wow. So much fail in your response.

It was for nine months not 20 years and it was not that they never met - it's about the consequence of a risk that they knowingly took.

Way to completely miss the analogy.
Ahhh, so it's about punishing the whore for spreading her legs, by stripping her of her rights.
If you make em wear burkas this wouldn't happen...
Thanks from Sabcat
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:52 PM   #25
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Wow. So much fail in your response.

It was for nine months not 20 years and it was not that they never met - it's about the consequence of a risk that they knowingly took.

Way to completely miss the analogy.
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Ahhh, so it's about punishing the whore for spreading her legs, by stripping her of her rights.
If you make em wear burkas this wouldn't happen...
Again, you show your lack of comprehension.

That is, if you even bothered to read and think about the analogy in the first place.

If you had, you would have seen that this is just a simple question about ANYONE'S obligation for the outcome of the risks they take.

But that didn't fit your template - did it?
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:29 PM   #26
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Again, you show your lack of comprehension.

That is, if you even bothered to read and think about the analogy in the first place.

If you had, you would have seen that this is just a simple question about ANYONE'S obligation for the outcome of the risks they take.

But that didn't fit your template - did it?
No this is one of those creation science type analogies, that seems so clever to people who don't see that it's ridiculous.
How about a bum appears in your living room, are you obligated to feed and shelter him for 9 months?
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:32 PM   #27
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SCIENCE
THE FIRST FEW MINUTES AFTER DEATH
A THREE-YEAR STUDY WILL EXPLORE THE NATURE OF DEATH AND CONSCIOUSNESS


"According to Parnia, the study is important for two reasons. First, published studies have shown that people who undergo cardiac arrest can recall specific memories and demonstrate consciousness. Second, during cardiac arrest, there is no measurable brain activity. "If you combine these two sets of data together, it indicates a need to do a large study to determine: is this real or not? Can this really be going on?"

The point is - that part of my analogy is not beyond the realm of possibility
So, as I pointed out before, the lack of brain activity is associated with a specific event....cardiac arrest.

A study needs to be done to find out why, during cardiac arrests, is there no brain activity detected. How long do those periods last? Is there something else going on during a cardiac arrest that might interfere with the ability to measure brain activity?

The situation you described, "Imagine the child is in a coma and is completely unaware. The child has no measurable brain waves to indicate any level of self awareness, No ability for thought, No sense of pain, etc." doesn't even come close to describing a situation of cardiac arrest.

Absent cardiac arrest then not being able to measure brain activity means the person is dead, call in the coroner.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 06:36 PM   #28
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if a woman gets pregnant and it is before 20 weeks, so there is not a functioning brain in the foetus, the foetus is living human tissue but it is not able to even be aware of itself let alone feel, experience, or react in any way, whats the ethical problem with ending the pregnancy at that stage?

this was not a rhetorical question. answers are invited.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:13 PM   #29
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i think you guys broke him
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:52 PM   #30
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i think you guys broke him
Nah, he's back studying his Intelligent Design texts and transposing the talking points to relate to abortion. He'll be back.
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