Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Abortion

Abortion Abortion Forum - A complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue


View Poll Results: Would the person who connected themself to the child obligated for the full 9 Months?
Yes - They would be 2 50.00%
No - They would not be 2 50.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

Thanks Tree5Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 1st, 2016, 12:00 PM   #1
Self Banned
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 279
Variation on "Thompson's Violinist" analogy with Poll

Lawmakers are often very quick to point out that pregnancy and the physical relationship between a pregnant woman and the child within her is unlike any other set of circumstances in society.

Sometimes in trying to communicate a point being made, lawmakers (and others) will use a 'hypothetical,' an analogy or an imagined situation to argue a point. Judith Jarvis Thompson's "Violinst" (defense of abortion) is a well known and often used example of this.

In Thompson's analogy, she asked her readers to imagine yourself waking up in bed - attached to a world famous violinist. . . and then her hypothetical comparisons to a pregnancy goes on from there.

Thompson's Violinist analogy presumes that both people involved are "persons" with rights. So does mine. However, this analogy is slightly different from hers.

I would like for you to imagine two people (any two people male or female) taking it upon themself to somehow gain access to a clinic or hospital room where an almost lifeless child is being cared for.

Imagine the child is in a coma and is completely unaware. The child has no measurable brain waves to indicate any level of self awareness, No ability for thought, No sense of pain, etc.

Please assume in this hypothetical that it's possible that the child never will awake from this condition. It's uncertain.

Now imagine (much like Thompson did) that the visitors choose to engage in an activity where there is a possibility (however slim) for a situation where one of them might end up with the child's body connected to their own body.

The connection is in such a manner that the child must remain so connected for at least NINE months, else it will likely die.

Again, if the connection is severed before nine months, the child will die and possibly the other person could die as well.

The poll question is simple.

In this above situation. . . If the child becomes connected as a direct result of the risks that the visitors took, would the person who managed to connect themself to the child be obligated to remain so connected for the nine months that they have physically committed to - by placing themself AND the child into that situation?"

Yes or No?

Please read carefully before taking the poll.

Last edited by Chuz Life; February 2nd, 2016 at 04:08 PM.
Chuz Life is offline  
Old February 2nd, 2016, 11:21 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,140
this is ridiculous. to follow this hypothetical i need to suspend reality so many times in so many ways i end up in a fantasy world that doesnt relate to this world in any meaningful way. its just non- sensical.

i can see what you are trying to do, but its really clumsy and just doesnt work.

try this one- if a woman gets pregnant and it is before 20 weeks, so there is not a functioning brain in the foetus, the foetus is living human tissue but it is not able to even be aware of itself let alone feel, experience, or react in any way, whats the ethical problem with ending the pregnancy at that stage?
Thanks from Lyzza
hot dragon is offline  
Old February 2nd, 2016, 11:31 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
Lawmakers are often very quick to point out that pregnancy and the physical relationship between a pregnant woman and the child within her is unlike any other set of circumstances in society.

Sometimes in trying to communicate a point being made, lawmakers (and others) will use a 'hypothetical,' an analogy or an imagined situation to argue a point. Judith Jarvis Thompson's "Violinst" (defense of abortion) is a well known and often used example of this.

In Thompson's analogy, she asked her readers to imagine yourself waking up in bed - attached to a world famous violinist. . . and then her hypothetical comparisons to a pregnancy goes on from there.

Thompson's Violinist analogy presumes that both people involved are "persons" with rights. So does mine. However, this analogy is slightly different from hers.

I would like for you to imagine two people (any two people male or female) taking it upon themself to somehow gain access to a clinic or hospital room where an almost lifeless child is being cared for.

Imagine the child is in a coma and is completely unaware. The child has no measurable brain waves to indicate any level of self awareness, No ability for thought, No sense of pain, etc.

Please assume in this hypothetical that it's possible that the child never will awake from this condition. It's uncertain.

Now imagine (much like Thompson did) that the visitors choose to engage in an activity where there is a possibility (however slim) for a situation where one of them might end up with the child's body connected to their own body.

The connection is in such a manner that the child must remain so connected for at least NINE months, else it will likely die.

Again, if the connection is severed before nine months, the child will die and possibly the other person could die as well.

The poll question is simple.

In this above situation. . . If the child becomes connected as a direct result of the risks that the visitors took, would the person who managed to connect themself to the child be obligated to remain so connected for the nine months that they have physically committed to - by placing themself AND the child into that situation?"

Yes or No?

Please read carefully before taking the poll.
Thompson's Violin Analogy is a new one for me and my sister is a violinist and will ask her. Plato's Allegory of the Cave and Murphy's Law, I am very familiar with because I have hands on experience.
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old February 2nd, 2016, 11:45 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Asimov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Thompson's Violin Analogy is a new one for me and my sister is a violinist and will ask her. Plato's Allegory of the Cave and Murphy's Law, I am very familiar with because I have hands on experience.
I'm not familiar with the violinist analogy, but I'm familiar with Plato's Cave Allegory. I have always viewed that in the context of reasoned faith and experience in God--though that is not what Plato had in mind at the time-- but I'm curious how you relate that to a decision whether to terminate a pregnancy. Please elaborate.
Thanks from Twisted Sister
Asimov is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:08 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov View Post
I'm not familiar with the violinist analogy, but I'm familiar with Plato's Cave Allegory. I have always viewed that in the context of reasoned faith and experience in God--though that is not what Plato had in mind at the time-- but I'm curious how you relate that to a decision whether to terminate a pregnancy. Please elaborate.
Murphy's Law

noun
1. the facetious proposition that if something can go wrong, it will.
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:19 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Asimov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Murphy's Law

noun
1. the facetious proposition that if something can go wrong, it will.
Correct: Anything that can go wrong WILL go wrong, at the worst possible time.

Are you referring to the pregnancy carried to term, or the early termination procedure? And I'm still not seeing Plato's Allegory here. You'll have to help me out.
Thanks from Twisted Sister
Asimov is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:27 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov View Post
Correct: Anything that can go wrong WILL go wrong, at the worst possible time.

Are you referring to the pregnancy carried to term, or the early termination procedure? And I'm still not seeing Plato's Allegory here. You'll have to help me out.
Allegory of the Wandering Nut, if you accidently drop a nut in the rotating and radiating radar package, it will fall in the most inaccessible place where it causes the most damage.

edit: I do not like to talk about abortion so speak in riddles when I do.

Last edited by Twisted Sister; February 3rd, 2016 at 12:45 AM.
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:47 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Asimov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Allegory of the Wandering Nut, if you accidentally drop a nut in the rotating and radiating radar package, it will fall in the most inaccessible place where it causes the most damage.

edit: I do not like to talk about abortion so speak in riddles when I do.
Fair enough.
Asimov is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 03:30 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Nwolfe35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
The child has no measureable brain waves
The child is dead. Call in a coroner.
Thanks from Lyzza
Nwolfe35 is offline  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 03:39 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
The child is dead. Call in a coroner.
Zap Gook
Twisted Sister is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Abortion

Tags
analogy, poll, thompson violinist, variation



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Conservative Group Blasts the Pope: "Paganism" Has "Entered the Church" LongWinded Current Events 8 September 29th, 2015 04:00 PM
"The Ringworm Children" (translated in Hebrew as "100000 Rays") intangible child World History 3 May 24th, 2015 06:26 AM
Up-Coming Event: "Kid" Obama To WHUP "conservative"-Butt!!! Medicine Man Current Events 3 July 30th, 2014 10:23 PM
"Castle Doctrine"/"Stand Your Ground"; Failed Experiments Medicine Man Current Events 33 July 17th, 2014 07:09 PM
"Farmers' Almanac" predicts a "bitterly cold" winter Uncle Han Current Events 0 August 27th, 2013 04:56 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.