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Old January 25th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #1
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Experiment

Let's conduct an experiment.

I'll stand at the top of a ladder. A baby in one hand and a Petrie dish with a fertilized embryo other. I'm going to drop both of them at the same time and you can only catch one.

If you truly believe that they are equal then the decision of which to catch will be impossible.

But if you instantly reach out to catch the baby that means you know there is a difference even if you don't admit it.
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Old January 25th, 2017, 06:18 PM   #2
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Do I have to catch one of them?
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Old January 26th, 2017, 03:30 AM   #3
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Do I have to catch one of them?


OH Sabcat. You are a such a stinker.
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Old January 26th, 2017, 11:44 AM   #4
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A difference? So what?

Spider-Man had to choose, he chose the woman he loves first. Doesn't mean the others aren't people.
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Old January 26th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Let's conduct an experiment.

I'll stand at the top of a ladder. A baby in one hand and a Petrie dish with a fertilized embryo other. I'm going to drop both of them at the same time and you can only catch one.

If you truly believe that they are equal then the decision of which to catch will be impossible.

But if you instantly reach out to catch the baby that means you know there is a difference even if you don't admit it.
A better way to construct this 'trolley problem' is a room-full of frozen embryos at a fertility clinic vs saving a baby somehow left behind in the room when a fire breaks out. You only have time to save either the 10,000 embryos or the baby..which do you save: the baby or the freezer compartment with the embryos?

I took that thought experiment for a test run 10 years ago, when I joined my first forum..that was mostly libertarian, but being overrun by the religious right at the time. Recall, even Ann Coulter in 2006 had to write a book and start doing god talk...even though she didn't know which church she was a member of! Every Republican was condemning evolution and declaring life begins at conception...and when it went as far as Ann Coulter, that's when you really knew there was a takeover underway!

So, when GW Bush passed a bill ending stem cell research on frozen "babies" our forum was overrun with threads arguing all different angles of life beginning at conception. But it doesn't do much good reasoning with people who weren't reasoned in to what they believe in the first place! So, even after tweaking the example as carefully as possible to rule out 3rd options, I couldn't find a single fundagelical who was willing to take on the question directly!
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Old January 26th, 2017, 01:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Let's conduct an experiment.

I'll stand at the top of a ladder. A baby in one hand and a Petrie dish with a fertilized embryo other. I'm going to drop both of them at the same time and you can only catch one.

If you truly believe that they are equal then the decision of which to catch will be impossible.

But if you instantly reach out to catch the baby that means you know there is a difference even if you don't admit it.
Guess what? They will hit the floor at the same time (neglecting air resistance).
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Old January 30th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #7
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A difference? So what?

Spider-Man had to choose, he chose the woman he loves first. Doesn't mean the others aren't people.
If the baby and embryo have no personal connection to you I bet you STILL go for the baby every time.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #8
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If the baby and embryo have no personal connection to you I bet you STILL go for the baby every time.
Yes, but only because one is human and the other is a glass vessel full of goo.

Want a better test.
Why not pass a law requiring that the frozen embryos in IVF clinics be implanted in 18 year old "draftees".
Wouldn't we draft 18 year old boys if hundreds of thousands of American lives were at stake?
Why not compel 18 year old girls to be implanted with the frozen embryos, that otherwise will die from freezer burn...?
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Old January 30th, 2017, 05:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Let's conduct an experiment.

I'll stand at the top of a ladder. A baby in one hand and a Petrie dish with a fertilized embryo other. I'm going to drop both of them at the same time and you can only catch one.

If you truly believe that they are equal then the decision of which to catch will be impossible.

But if you instantly reach out to catch the baby that means you know there is a difference even if you don't admit it.
if you have a fertilized embryo in a petrie dish, basically you have already killed it. So the choice is easy.


How about a different experiment. You have a baby taken from the womb of a mother that was developed for 7 months in one hand and a baby born naturally yesterday, in the other. Which one will you catch?
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Old January 30th, 2017, 06:02 PM   #10
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if you have a fertilized embryo in a petrie dish, basically you have already killed it. So the choice is easy.


How about a different experiment. You have a baby taken from the womb of a mother that was developed for 7 months in one hand and a baby born naturally yesterday, in the other. Which one will you catch?
Yeah, science is obviously not your strong suit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.cc4d41abac81
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