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Old March 1st, 2018, 07:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
What about the inalienable rights of the unborn child? TNVolunteer73's Biblical reference clearly reveals the origin of the Judeo-Christian belief that the unborn are indeed persons. I believe it. Most of my friends believe it. Most Protestant denominations affirm this. It remains the official position of the Catholic church. I can't speak for the Jewish faith, but I know one rabbi who firmly believed the sanctity of all human life begins at conception.



Jesus taught the Law of the Prophets, including "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13) by way of, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-20) He also taught the scriptures, meaning Jesus taught the Biblical reference to which TNVolunteer73 mentioned, that the unborn are indeed persons.

I think the more pertinent question is, "At what juncture would a human being forfeit their inalienable right to life?" There is no such action a baby can perform in the womb. Throughout nearly all human civilizations, however, certain crimes have long been punishable by death.

Murder is one such crime, and up until the middle of the 20th century, abortion was considered murder of the unborn person.

That's entirely consistent with what Jesus taught (see above).
Murder has a legal definition in this country, and all others I assume, and it is defined as a illegal killing.
Abortion is not illegal in this country, therefore it in not murder.
We are NOT a theocracy, therefore it simply does not matter what the Bible says.
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Last edited by Hollywood; March 1st, 2018 at 07:36 PM. Reason: typo
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Old March 1st, 2018, 07:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
What about the inalienable rights of the unborn child? TNVolunteer73's Biblical reference clearly reveals the origin of the Judeo-Christian belief that the unborn are indeed persons. I believe it. Most of my friends believe it. Most Protestant denominations affirm this. It remains the official position of the Catholic church. I can't speak for the Jewish faith, but I know one rabbi who firmly believed the sanctity of all human life begins at conception.



Jesus taught the Law of the Prophets, including "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13) by way of, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-20) He also taught the scriptures, meaning Jesus taught the Biblical reference to which TNVolunteer73 mentioned, that the unborn are indeed persons.

I think the more pertinent question is, "At what juncture would a human being forfeit their inalienable right to life?" There is no such action a baby can perform in the womb. Throughout nearly all human civilizations, however, certain crimes have long been punishable by death.

Murder is one such crime, and up until the middle of the 20th century, abortion was considered murder of the unborn person.

That's entirely consistent with what Jesus taught (see above).
Fortunately, it is the law and not the mythology of some religion that matters.
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Old March 1st, 2018, 07:46 PM   #23
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Murder has a legal definition in this country, and all others I assume, and it is defined as a illegal killing.
Abortion is not illegal in this country, therefore it in not murder.
Sure it is. Ours is by no means the first, nor will it be the last time a society legalizes murder. It's still murder, regardless of what some piece of legislation calls it.

Put another way, there remains an objective reality regardless of whether those within the objective reality are willing to admit to it, are even aware of it, or not. Mice born in a cage don't know they're in a cage. Even if one escapes, it only knows it's found something different. It persists in that delusion until eaten by the cat.
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Old March 1st, 2018, 08:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
Sure it is. Ours is by no means the first, nor will it be the last time a society legalizes murder. It's still murder, regardless of what some piece of legislation calls it.

Put another way, there remains an objective reality regardless of whether those within the objective reality are willing to admit to it, are even aware of it, or not. Mice born in a cage don't know they're in a cage. Even if one escapes, it only knows it's found something different. It persists in that delusion until eaten by the cat.
Words have meaning. You are trying to change the meaning of words.
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Old March 1st, 2018, 08:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Words have meaning. You are trying to change the meaning of words.
You mean words like Unborn child to Lump of Tissue?
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 05:27 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
Sure it is. Ours is by no means the first, nor will it be the last time a society legalizes murder. It's still murder, regardless of what some piece of legislation calls it.

Put another way, there remains an objective reality regardless of whether those within the objective reality are willing to admit to it, are even aware of it, or not. Mice born in a cage don't know they're in a cage. Even if one escapes, it only knows it's found something different. It persists in that delusion until eaten by the cat.
Everything in my post is factual. Period.
If your religion forbids abortion then don't have one.
If you have the opportunity to vote to change the law regarding abortion please feel free to exercise that right to vote.
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 05:31 AM   #27
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You guys cant be surprised that this topic comes up again and again can you? If you are then you really don't understand their argument.
They dont have an argument. They have fairy tales, lies, vicious attacks and death threats. Those are not arguments.
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 07:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by mugaliens View Post
Sure it is (murder). Ours is by no means the first, nor will it be the last time a society legalizes murder. It's still murder, regardless of what some piece of legislation calls it.
Oxford Dictionary:
Murder - 1. The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Abortion is lawful. Hence, it is not murder.

A fetus is not defined as a "human being". Hence, abortion is not murder.

You're wrong.
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 07:50 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Murder has a legal definition in this country, and all others I assume, and it is defined as a illegal killing.
Abortion is not illegal in this country, therefore it in not murder.
We are NOT a theocracy, therefore it simply does not matter what the Bible says.
It is impossible to stop right-to-lifers with logic, evidence, and sound reasoning. They have an emotional component that defies all such attempts. This is why it is necessary to just ignore them and protect legal abortion from them.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 05:05 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
The bible.. addresses the unborn

The Call of Jeremiah
4The word of the Lord came to me, saying,
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knewa you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”


You are a Christian so the unborn Child was called by God..

There was an attempt to abort him...


16But let that man be like the cities Which the LORD overthrew without relenting, And let him hear an outcry in the morning And a shout of alarm at noon; 17Because he did not kill me before birth, So that my mother would have been my grave, And her womb ever pregnant.
Numbers 5:16 unfaithful pregnant wife

now if those are so anti abortion (do not have one) why let victims of rape and incest have abortions?
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