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Old March 20th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skrekk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1332215298' post='390780

[quote name='skrekk' timestamp='1332204178' post='390736']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332200549' post='390723']

The motive of your idiotic attack on Russell is clear to me. He's a Christian.


Actually I didn't know at first that he was a Christian or an evangelical until very recently. I'll admit I do find his desire to have 11 kids rather odd, and I find his statements about "stealth evangelism" to be fundamentally dishonest and disreputable.



Here's what I started with when the story first broke:
  • very high "administrative" costs,
  • factual misrepresentations in the video,

Here's what I learned about "Invisible Children" since:
  • its funding sources come from anti-gay hate groups and Christian extremist groups,
  • the Dominionism expressed by its founder,
  • its possible association with hate groups in Uganda.

Now that I know it's an evangelical group I definitely wouldn't donate to it. There are better organizations which don't have a hidden agenda.


Cool. Maybe that atheist group working to elevate peoples' awareness on Kony would appreciate your donations.



Full quote: The motive of your idiotic attack on Russell is clear to me. He's a Christian. "Where Kony is now" is just a diversion. He's an ICC-indicted lunatic who's preyed on children for decades and he's somewhere in central Africa. Of course, the children are black, but knowing how strongly you stand against racism, I'd think that you wouldn't be opposing bringing this issue to the attention of the world.



Oh yeah, I forgot. Russell is a Christian.




And the black children of Central Africa, well, they can wait until skrekk determines the "proper" group to expose this horror and injustice, and donate accordingly.

[/quote]



I would expect you to do no less than donate to a "charity" which has a very high overhead ratio and which is peddling inaccurate information.

[/quote]



Inaccurate information? You, in an obvious bait and switch tactic, turned the subject of this video into "the plight of Ugandan children" which makes me wonder if you watched the video. Inaccurate information?



The world has been changed by the interconnectivity of the web. True.



The revolutions in the Arab world were facilitated by the internet. True.



Russell met Jacob in Northern Uganda, almost ten years ago. True.



When Russell met Jacob, Kony and his LRA were terrorizing Uganda and Central Africa. True.



At that time, Jacob and other children were aware of the child kidnappings by Kony, and the murder of their parents. True.



The children were overshadowed by a sense of hopelessness and despair. True.



Kony is a dangerous lunatic, hiding behind "christian belief" and using "god" to justify his crimes. True.



For 26 years, Kony has been kidnapping children, turning them into monstrous child soldiers and sex slaves, by conservative estimates more than 30,000 children. True.



These children are "invisible children" to the West and most countries. True.



The ICC indicted Kony, and he tops the ICC's list of wanted criminals. True.



Kony still is at large. True.



In May 2010, Obama signed the "Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act". This law led to the deployment of U.S. troops in the region in October, 2011. Shortly thereafter the United Nations Security Council met to discuss the LRA. Internationally, journalists set out to inform themselves about the conditions in the region.



In the world of US politics, if people don't keep pressure on the government, the whole issue will drop below the horizon. True.



The stated intent of the video, and Invisible Chidren, is to raise awareness of the atrocities happening in "forgotten" Africa. It's doing that.



You are peddling inaccurate information. Your motives are clear. When asked for information supporting your alleged connection between Invisible Children and Ssempa, your ran away with your tail between your legs.



You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.



You are a one-trick pony.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.


Except that it's actually the people with knowledge of Uganda and the LRA who are making the critique of "Invisible Children" and its videos.



http://www.channel4....ging-for-uganda

http://afripopmag.co...-2012-campaign/

http://afripopmag.co...ampaign-debate/

http://blogs.lse.ac....paign-is-wrong/



I agree with some of the commentary that Russell seems to see himself as a "white savior", while at the same time advocating a military solution to what is a comparatively minor problem, and which doesn't have a military solution. Even worse, he supports Museveni and the NRA (which are much bigger problems than Kony).
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Old March 20th, 2012, 08:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1332255826' post='390816

You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.


Except that it's actually the people with knowledge of Uganda and the LRA who are making the critique of "Invisible Children" and its videos.



http://www.channel4....ging-for-uganda

http://afripopmag.co...-2012-campaign/

http://afripopmag.co...ampaign-debate/

http://blogs.lse.ac....paign-is-wrong/



I agree with some of the commentary that Russell seems to see himself as a "white savior", while at the same time advocating a military solution to what is a comparatively minor problem, and which doesn't have a military solution. Even worse, he supports Museveni and the NRA (which are much bigger problems than Kony).






Yeah, it's a "minor problem." After all, it's only 30,000 black children involved.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skrekk' timestamp='1332260410' post='390822

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332255826' post='390816']

You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.


Except that it's actually the people with knowledge of Uganda and the LRA who are making the critique of "Invisible Children" and its videos.



http://www.channel4....ging-for-uganda

http://afripopmag.co...-2012-campaign/

http://afripopmag.co...ampaign-debate/

http://blogs.lse.ac....paign-is-wrong/



I agree with some of the commentary that Russell seems to see himself as a "white savior", while at the same time advocating a military solution to what is a comparatively minor problem, and which doesn't have a military solution. Even worse, he supports Museveni and the NRA (which are much bigger problems than Kony).






Yeah, it's a "minor problem." After all, it's only 30,000 black children involved.

[/quote]



As one of those articles noted, more children die in northern Uganda daily from malnutrition than the average number killed monthly by the LRA during its 26 year history. And far more have been killed by Museveni's NRA, which has also used child soldiers and commits numerous similar human rights violations (rape, burning of villages, etc). There are far bigger problems in the region than a group which only has an estimated 200 members.



Moreover, the LRA hasn't even been in Uganda since 2005 or 2006. So why does "Invisible Children" still support the brutal Meseveni dictatorship and his NRA? Why do they support the equally brutal SPLA in Sudan?
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Old March 20th, 2012, 10:13 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skrekk' timestamp='1332222712' post='390800

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332215298' post='390780']

[quote name='skrekk' timestamp='1332204178' post='390736']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332200549' post='390723']

The motive of your idiotic attack on Russell is clear to me. He's a Christian.


Actually I didn't know at first that he was a Christian or an evangelical until very recently. I'll admit I do find his desire to have 11 kids rather odd, and I find his statements about "stealth evangelism" to be fundamentally dishonest and disreputable.



Here's what I started with when the story first broke:
  • very high "administrative" costs,
  • factual misrepresentations in the video,

Here's what I learned about "Invisible Children" since:
  • its funding sources come from anti-gay hate groups and Christian extremist groups,
  • the Dominionism expressed by its founder,
  • its possible association with hate groups in Uganda.

Now that I know it's an evangelical group I definitely wouldn't donate to it. There are better organizations which don't have a hidden agenda.


Cool. Maybe that atheist group working to elevate peoples' awareness on Kony would appreciate your donations.



Full quote: The motive of your idiotic attack on Russell is clear to me. He's a Christian. "Where Kony is now" is just a diversion. He's an ICC-indicted lunatic who's preyed on children for decades and he's somewhere in central Africa. Of course, the children are black, but knowing how strongly you stand against racism, I'd think that you wouldn't be opposing bringing this issue to the attention of the world.



Oh yeah, I forgot. Russell is a Christian.




And the black children of Central Africa, well, they can wait until skrekk determines the "proper" group to expose this horror and injustice, and donate accordingly.

[/quote]



I would expect you to do no less than donate to a "charity" which has a very high overhead ratio and which is peddling inaccurate information.

[/quote]



Inaccurate information? You, in an obvious bait and switch tactic, turned the subject of this video into "the plight of Ugandan children" which makes me wonder if you watched the video. Inaccurate information?



The world has been changed by the interconnectivity of the web. True.



The revolutions in the Arab world were facilitated by the internet. True.



Russell met Jacob in Northern Uganda, almost ten years ago. True.



When Russell met Jacob, Kony and his LRA were terrorizing Uganda and Central Africa. True.



At that time, Jacob and other children were aware of the child kidnappings by Kony, and the murder of their parents. True.



The children were overshadowed by a sense of hopelessness and despair. True.



Kony is a dangerous lunatic, hiding behind "christian belief" and using "god" to justify his crimes. True.



For 26 years, Kony has been kidnapping children, turning them into monstrous child soldiers and sex slaves, by conservative estimates more than 30,000 children. True.



These children are "invisible children" to the West and most countries. True.



The ICC indicted Kony, and he tops the ICC's list of wanted criminals. True.



Kony still is at large. True.



In May 2010, Obama signed the "Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act". This law led to the deployment of U.S. troops in the region in October, 2011. Shortly thereafter the United Nations Security Council met to discuss the LRA. Internationally, journalists set out to inform themselves about the conditions in the region.



In the world of US politics, if people don't keep pressure on the government, the whole issue will drop below the horizon. True.



The stated intent of the video, and Invisible Chidren, is to raise awareness of the atrocities happening in "forgotten" Africa. It's doing that.



You are peddling inaccurate information. Your motives are clear. When asked for information supporting your alleged connection between Invisible Children and Ssempa, your ran away with your tail between your legs.



You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.



You are a one-trick pony.

[/quote]



Locally, one of the men who help produced the video went berserk on Friday. He is now in a private mental health facility, and I think I know which one it is, too.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skrekk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1332260959' post='390825

[quote name='skrekk' timestamp='1332260410' post='390822']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332255826' post='390816']

You've used this thread to further your vision of an atheist world, and to practice stealth atheism.


Except that it's actually the people with knowledge of Uganda and the LRA who are making the critique of "Invisible Children" and its videos.



http://www.channel4....ging-for-uganda

http://afripopmag.co...-2012-campaign/

http://afripopmag.co...ampaign-debate/

http://blogs.lse.ac....paign-is-wrong/



I agree with some of the commentary that Russell seems to see himself as a "white savior", while at the same time advocating a military solution to what is a comparatively minor problem, and which doesn't have a military solution. Even worse, he supports Museveni and the NRA (which are much bigger problems than Kony).






Yeah, it's a "minor problem." After all, it's only 30,000 black children involved.

[/quote]



As one of those articles noted, more children die in northern Uganda daily from malnutrition than the average number killed monthly by the LRA during its 26 year history. And far more have been killed by Museveni's NRA, which has also used child soldiers and commits numerous similar human rights violations (rape, burning of villages, etc). There are far bigger problems in the region than a group which only has an estimated 200 members.



Moreover, the LRA hasn't even been in Uganda since 2005 or 2006. So why does "Invisible Children" still support the brutal Meseveni dictatorship and his NRA? Why do they support the equally brutal SPLA in Sudan?

[/quote]



The attempt to downplay the deaths of 30,000 children is deplorable. If it could be shown that some of these children were homosexuals, you would be singing a different tune.



Is March 20, 2012 recent enough for you?



Quote:
KAMPALA, Uganda—Ugandan troops have stepped up efforts to hunt down rebels headed by fugitive Joseph Kony, whose fighters have preyed on the region for more than two decades, Ugandan officials said on Tuesday.



Ugandan troops will head a new regional force, made up of troops from South Sudan, the Central African Republic and Democratic Republic of Congo, to hunt the rebel fighters, who are holed up in the jungles of the Central African Republic, said Col. Flexi Kulayigye, Uganda's army and defense spokesman. "A Ugandan commander has already been appointed to head the regional force of 5,000 troops."



The regional force, which is backed by the African Union, will be able to operate across the borders of the regional states in the hunt for Mr. Kony, said Col. Kulayigye.



The new force will augment at least 4,000 U.S.-backed Ugandan troops currently in the Central African Republic hunting for the rebel leader—indicted by the International Criminal Court—whose forces are blamed for abducting at least 30,000 children from northern Uganda in the past two decades.



Last week, the Ugandan government accused former foe Congo of restricting Ugandan troops from entering its northeastern territories, slowing the hunt for the rebels.



Although Congo has indicated that its troops have the capacity to deal with the remnants of Mr. Kony's Lord's Resistance Army, diplomats said its ill-equipped army is no match for the battle-hardened LRA fighters, who have spread their terror campaign in recent weeks, displacing thousands of locals in Congo.



The intensified effort follows a recent Internet campaign aimed at spurring Mr. Kony's capture. A 30-minute Internet video, "Kony 2012," released in early March, has become the most viral in Web history, registering some 137.2 million views by the end of last week, according to online measurement firm Visible Measures Corp.
http://online.wsj.co...0808324852.html



The claim that IC "supports" Museveni, a disgusting and brutal character to be sure, is derelict. The claim that the SPLA in South Sudan is "equally brutal" as Kony or Museveni is fallacious. However, the Khartoum government is a good fit.



Quote:
Juba — Sudan Armed Forces Antenov plane bombed SPLA position in Jau yesterday according to the press release copied to The Citizen by the office of the army spokesperson Col Philip Aguer Panyang.

\

"This is adding to the series of aggressions conducted by the Khartoum regime against the people of the Republic of South Sudan," said Aguer who added that the SPLA reminds Khartoum that such a behavior will never pass unpunished.




The press release also revealed that recently SAF have armed the Rizeigat Arab nomads and Ambororo and LRA at the borders of the Raja and South Darfur with the intention to push them to occupy or destabilize South Sudan.
http://allafrica.com...1203200667.html



The "evangelical" Obama ordered advisors into the region, and he was no doubt influenced by these "evangelicals":



Quote:
But this new Africa deployment, though modest in scale, would appear to bear the imprint of Secretary Clinton and Ambassador Rice in particular. Both women have dedicated special attention to addressing the mass atrocities committed by “terror armies” across portions of Africa, from the Central African Republic and the Democratic Republic of the Congo to Uganda and South Sudan.



And both women have insisted since the early days of the Obama administration that the horror for Africa’s women of mass rapes must not be left unaddressed.
http://www.csmonitor...o-get-him/(page)/2



Undoubtedly, some of the forces deployed were white, Christian males. That, combined with your observation that Russell seems to see himself as a "white savior"'is more than reason enough for you to weave your web of innuendo, lies and unsupported accusations, right skrekk?
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Old March 20th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #47
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The claim that the SPLA in South Sudan is "equally brutal" as Kony or Museveni is fallacious.


Boy are you clueless on that issue - the SPLA is only now getting around to not using child soldiers, even though they've been promising for the last several years to end the practice:

http://www.voanews.com/learningengli...142998905.html



Apparently they've just been waiting long enough until those soldiers are no longer children.





Quote:

http://www.un.org/children/conflict/english/sudan.html

Ongoing association of children within the ranks of SPLA Division 4 in Duar (Unity State), Division 3 in Wunyik (Northern Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 5 in Mapel (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 7 in Upper Nile State, Division 2 in Eastern and Central Equatoria States and Division 8 in Jonglei State were noted in 2010. Further, 42 cases of active child recruitment by SPLA was also confirmed. It has been difficult to determine the exact numbers of children associated with SPLA, given that the children are subject to the constant movement of SPLA troops throughout southern Sudan. Further, in the Transitional Areas, 220 children associated with SPLA in Blue Nile State were verified and registered for demobilization in July, while 8 boys were confirmed to have been recruited by SPLA in Jaw (South Kordofan State) in November. More children are presumed to be present in the ranks of SLA in South Kordofan, although lack of access and restrictions imposed by the local authorities make it difficult to confirm or verify such allegations. Separately, 25 boys were recruited by the Joint Integrated Units (SPLA and Sudanese Armed Forces) in Wau (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State).


Quote:

http://www.westminsterassociates.co..../terrorism.asp

The New York Times has describing the SPLA as "brutal and predatory", stating that they "have behaved like an occupying army, killing, raping and pillaging" in southern Sudan, and calling SPLA leader John Garang one of Sudan's "pre-eminent war criminals". Eight US-based humanitarian organisations working in Sudan, including CARE, World Vision, Church World Service, Save the Children and the American Refugee Committee also publicly went on record to state that the SPLA has: "engaged for years in the most serious human rights abuses, including extrajudicial killings, beatings, arbitrary detention, slavery, etc." Human Rights Watch has additionally commented: "The SPLA has a history of gross abuses of human rights and has not made any effort to establish accountability. Its abuses today remain serious."


The SPLA also has a long history of using terrorism, not just through rape and the burning of villages, but also by shooting down civilian airliners.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1332274830' post='390851
The claim that the SPLA in South Sudan is "equally brutal" as Kony or Museveni is fallacious.
Boy are you clueless on that issue - the SPLA is only now getting around to not using child soldiers, even though they've been promising for the last several years to end the practice: http://www.voanews.com/learningengli...142998905.html Apparently they've just been waiting long enough until those soldiers are no longer children.
Quote:
http://www.un.org/children/conflict/english/sudan.html Ongoing association of children within the ranks of SPLA Division 4 in Duar (Unity State), Division 3 in Wunyik (Northern Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 5 in Mapel (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 7 in Upper Nile State, Division 2 in Eastern and Central Equatoria States and Division 8 in Jonglei State were noted in 2010. Further, 42 cases of active child recruitment by SPLA was also confirmed. It has been difficult to determine the exact numbers of children associated with SPLA, given that the children are subject to the constant movement of SPLA troops throughout southern Sudan. Further, in the Transitional Areas, 220 children associated with SPLA in Blue Nile State were verified and registered for demobilization in July, while 8 boys were confirmed to have been recruited by SPLA in Jaw (South Kordofan State) in November. More children are presumed to be present in the ranks of SLA in South Kordofan, although lack of access and restrictions imposed by the local authorities make it difficult to confirm or verify such allegations. Separately, 25 boys were recruited by the Joint Integrated Units (SPLA and Sudanese Armed Forces) in Wau (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State).
Quote:
http://www.westminsterassociates.co..../terrorism.asp The New York Times has describing the SPLA as "brutal and predatory", stating that they "have behaved like an occupying army, killing, raping and pillaging" in southern Sudan, and calling SPLA leader John Garang one of Sudan's "pre-eminent war criminals". Eight US-based humanitarian organisations working in Sudan, including CARE, World Vision, Church World Service, Save the Children and the American Refugee Committee also publicly went on record to state that the SPLA has: "engaged for years in the most serious human rights abuses, including extrajudicial killings, beatings, arbitrary detention, slavery, etc." Human Rights Watch has additionally commented: "The SPLA has a history of gross abuses of human rights and has not made any effort to establish accountability. Its abuses today remain serious."
The SPLA also has a long history of using terrorism, not just through rape and the burning of villages, but also by shooting down civilian airliners.


Your first link doesn't mention Kony, which itself is incredible, and your second link is almost 12 years old. Regardless, this is obfuscation. No link has been established between IC and the SPLA.



Plus, like always, you cherry-pick and respond. Your dishonesty is for all to see.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by skrekk' timestamp='1332280143' post='390871
[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332274830' post='390851'] The claim that the SPLA in South Sudan is "equally brutal" as Kony or Museveni is fallacious.
Boy are you clueless on that issue - the SPLA is only now getting around to not using child soldiers, even though they've been promising for the last several years to end the practice: http://www.voanews.c...-142998905.html Apparently they've just been waiting long enough until those soldiers are no longer children.
Quote:
http://www.un.org/ch...lish/sudan.html Ongoing association of children within the ranks of SPLA Division 4 in Duar (Unity State), Division 3 in Wunyik (Northern Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 5 in Mapel (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 7 in Upper Nile State, Division 2 in Eastern and Central Equatoria States and Division 8 in Jonglei State were noted in 2010. Further, 42 cases of active child recruitment by SPLA was also confirmed. It has been difficult to determine the exact numbers of children associated with SPLA, given that the children are subject to the constant movement of SPLA troops throughout southern Sudan. Further, in the Transitional Areas, 220 children associated with SPLA in Blue Nile State were verified and registered for demobilization in July, while 8 boys were confirmed to have been recruited by SPLA in Jaw (South Kordofan State) in November. More children are presumed to be present in the ranks of SLA in South Kordofan, although lack of access and restrictions imposed by the local authorities make it difficult to confirm or verify such allegations. Separately, 25 boys were recruited by the Joint Integrated Units (SPLA and Sudanese Armed Forces) in Wau (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State).
Quote:
http://www.westminst...s/terrorism.asp The New York Times has describing the SPLA as "brutal and predatory", stating that they "have behaved like an occupying army, killing, raping and pillaging" in southern Sudan, and calling SPLA leader John Garang one of Sudan's "pre-eminent war criminals". Eight US-based humanitarian organisations working in Sudan, including CARE, World Vision, Church World Service, Save the Children and the American Refugee Committee also publicly went on record to state that the SPLA has: "engaged for years in the most serious human rights abuses, including extrajudicial killings, beatings, arbitrary detention, slavery, etc." Human Rights Watch has additionally commented: "The SPLA has a history of gross abuses of human rights and has not made any effort to establish accountability. Its abuses today remain serious."
The SPLA also has a long history of using terrorism, not just through rape and the burning of villages, but also by shooting down civilian airliners.


Your first link doesn't mention Kony, which itself is incredible, and your second link is almost 12 years old. Regardless, this is obfuscation. No link has been established between IC and the SPLA.



Plus, like always, you cherry-pick and respond. Your dishonesty is for all to see.

[/quote]



Ummmmm.......I didn't claim any link between Kony and the SPLA (the SPLA has been fighting the LRA, which is why "Invisible Children" advocates arming the SPLA). The point was that your claim that the SPLA isn't equally brutal as the LRA is just ignorant.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1332287010' post='390896

[quote name='skrekk' timestamp='1332280143' post='390871'] [quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1332274830' post='390851'] The claim that the SPLA in South Sudan is "equally brutal" as Kony or Museveni is fallacious.
Boy are you clueless on that issue - the SPLA is only now getting around to not using child soldiers, even though they've been promising for the last several years to end the practice: http://www.voanews.c...-142998905.html Apparently they've just been waiting long enough until those soldiers are no longer children.
Quote:
http://www.un.org/ch...lish/sudan.html Ongoing association of children within the ranks of SPLA Division 4 in Duar (Unity State), Division 3 in Wunyik (Northern Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 5 in Mapel (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State), Division 7 in Upper Nile State, Division 2 in Eastern and Central Equatoria States and Division 8 in Jonglei State were noted in 2010. Further, 42 cases of active child recruitment by SPLA was also confirmed. It has been difficult to determine the exact numbers of children associated with SPLA, given that the children are subject to the constant movement of SPLA troops throughout southern Sudan. Further, in the Transitional Areas, 220 children associated with SPLA in Blue Nile State were verified and registered for demobilization in July, while 8 boys were confirmed to have been recruited by SPLA in Jaw (South Kordofan State) in November. More children are presumed to be present in the ranks of SLA in South Kordofan, although lack of access and restrictions imposed by the local authorities make it difficult to confirm or verify such allegations. Separately, 25 boys were recruited by the Joint Integrated Units (SPLA and Sudanese Armed Forces) in Wau (Western Bahr el-Ghazal State).
Quote:
http://www.westminst...s/terrorism.asp The New York Times has describing the SPLA as "brutal and predatory", stating that they "have behaved like an occupying army, killing, raping and pillaging" in southern Sudan, and calling SPLA leader John Garang one of Sudan's "pre-eminent war criminals". Eight US-based humanitarian organisations working in Sudan, including CARE, World Vision, Church World Service, Save the Children and the American Refugee Committee also publicly went on record to state that the SPLA has: "engaged for years in the most serious human rights abuses, including extrajudicial killings, beatings, arbitrary detention, slavery, etc." Human Rights Watch has additionally commented: "The SPLA has a history of gross abuses of human rights and has not made any effort to establish accountability. Its abuses today remain serious."
The SPLA also has a long history of using terrorism, not just through rape and the burning of villages, but also by shooting down civilian airliners.


Your first link doesn't mention Kony, which itself is incredible, and your second link is almost 12 years old. Regardless, this is obfuscation. No link has been established between IC and the SPLA.



Plus, like always, you cherry-pick and respond. Your dishonesty is for all to see.

[/quote]



Ummmmm.......I didn't claim any link between Kony and the SPLA (the SPLA has been fighting the LRA, which is why "Invisible Children" advocates arming the SPLA). The point was that your claim that the SPLA isn't equally brutal as the LRA is just ignorant.

[/quote]



Ummmmm.......I said: "No link has been established between IC and the SPLA."



When cherry-picking can't suit your position, you resort to replying to what wasn't said. Ummmmm, please address what I said.
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