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View Poll Results: Agree or disagree with the statement in the original post?
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Old May 14th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #1
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"Each citizen should have the right to define what liberty means to them and to exersize this definition so long as it does not directly restrict other citizens from doing the same."



in other words



"A person should be free to do as they please so long as it does not directly restrict others from doing as they please as well."



Why do you agree or disagree with the statement?



If you agree,heres some sites you cant afford to miss!



http://www.theadvocates.org



http://www.thelibertycommittee.org
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Old May 15th, 2011, 06:37 AM   #2
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This is an impossible situation.



If I wish to play my music very loud at night but my neighbor wishes to sleep, whose choice wins?


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Old May 15th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
This is an impossible situation.



If I wish to play my music very loud at night but my neighbor wishes to sleep, whose choice wins?




Your neighbor's.



It's a very clear requirement of Liberty to respect that my rights end where yours begin. Your loud music doesn't stop at your home's walls. If you like to play music loudly at night, that's fine, but then it becomes your responsibility to see that you do not include the neighborhood unwillingly in your desire.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #4
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Your neighbor's.



It's a very clear requirement of Liberty to respect that my rights end where yours begin. Your loud music doesn't stop at your home's walls. If you like to play music loudly at night, that's fine, but then it becomes your responsibility to see that you do not include the neighborhood unwillingly in your desire.











When you create a situation of 'I do what I want as long as it doesn't stop you from doing what you want', you're creating a conflicted situation.



I have the right to party as long as it doesn't stop my neighbor from sleeping. My neighbor has the right to sleep as long as it doesn't stop me from partying.



What if that neighbor wished to sleep during a hot August day, and my kids wanted to have friends over for a barb-a-que and pool party?

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Old May 15th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #5
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I'll have to remember all this when I'm back in Afghanistan and the donkeys braying on the street below start to disturb me.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 10:49 AM   #6
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Also, people with dogs that bark all the time (especially when you're in your own yard) should be shot.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #7
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I agree with the old saying

"My freedom ends where your starts."



But your sites have nothing to do with that.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #8
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Your neighbor's.



It's a very clear requirement of Liberty to respect that my rights end where yours begin. Your loud music doesn't stop at your home's walls. If you like to play music loudly at night, that's fine, but then it becomes your responsibility to see that you do not include the neighborhood unwillingly in your desire.











When you create a situation of 'I do what I want as long as it doesn't stop you from doing what you want', you're creating a conflicted situation.



I have the right to party as long as it doesn't stop my neighbor from sleeping. My neighbor has the right to sleep as long as it doesn't stop me from partying.



What if that neighbor wished to sleep during a hot August day, and my kids wanted to have friends over for a barb-a-que and pool party?



That's different. If the person regularly slept during the day, then it would be her responsibility to have ear plugs or whatever worked for her.



The principle here, not well-appreciated by Americans though it's a core principle of our system of government, is property rights. Your property rights end at the edge of your property. Within the boundaries, you are the sovereign. Anything you do on your property that does not extend beyond your property is your personal right.



However, that which leaves your property, sound, light, water, odors, by definition will encroach onto another's property, and thus may violate the property rights of another. Perhaps, you and your neighbor can negotiate your encroachments, perhaps not, and if not you are the one to cease and desist.



Try it on. What if you needed to sleep at night for your job, and your neighbor, on a regular basis, not only had loud parties but they were bright as well.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 05:41 PM   #9
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Unless you live way out in the country, I don't think you have the right to keep large barking dogs. If you are in a suburb or city, you should be restricted to only small breeds that live inside your house most of the time.



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Old May 15th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #10
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That's different. If the person regularly slept during the day, then it would be her responsibility to have ear plugs or whatever worked for her.



The principle here, not well-appreciated by Americans though it's a core principle of our system of government, is property rights. Your property rights end at the edge of your property. Within the boundaries, you are the sovereign. Anything you do on your property that does not extend beyond your property is your personal right.



However, that which leaves your property, sound, light, water, odors, by definition will encroach onto another's property, and thus may violate the property rights of another. Perhaps, you and your neighbor can negotiate your encroachments, perhaps not, and if not you are the one to cease and desist.



Try it on. What if you needed to sleep at night for your job, and your neighbor, on a regular basis, not only had loud parties but they were bright as well.





Exactly. That's why the proposed situation is at conflict with itself. Society has always decided whose rights shall be considered paramount. The majority of people sleep at night, therefore, the partying persons rights are limited. People who sleep during the day are a minority, so they must adapt.





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Old May 15th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #11
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I'll have to remember all this when I'm back in Afghanistan and the donkeys braying on the street below start to disturb me.



Locate and download the loud roaring of a lion. You'll be amazed at how quickly it shuts up most animals.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
That's different. If the person regularly slept during the day, then it would be her responsibility to have ear plugs or whatever worked for her.



The principle here, not well-appreciated by Americans though it's a core principle of our system of government, is property rights. Your property rights end at the edge of your property. Within the boundaries, you are the sovereign. Anything you do on your property that does not extend beyond your property is your personal right.



However, that which leaves your property, sound, light, water, odors, by definition will encroach onto another's property, and thus may violate the property rights of another. Perhaps, you and your neighbor can negotiate your encroachments, perhaps not, and if not you are the one to cease and desist.



Try it on. What if you needed to sleep at night for your job, and your neighbor, on a regular basis, not only had loud parties but they were bright as well.





Exactly. That's why the proposed situation is at conflict with itself. Society has always decided whose rights shall be considered paramount. The majority of people sleep at night, therefore, the partying persons rights are limited. People who sleep during the day are a minority, so they must adapt.







What proposed solution? Of a person taking into consideration the rights of her neighbor in the exercising of her rights? That's "civilization," being civilized.



Having the right to do something does not make doing it right. More than the "rule of law" is involved in the situations we've discussed, something deeper.



Bottom line, an American citizen shouldn't need a law to tell her or him not to play very loud music after, say, 11 p.m. unless they live on 40 acres somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Some of our Founders appreciated the value of dispersed living, the value of it to Liberty.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 06:45 AM   #13
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What proposed solution?Of a person taking into consideration the rights of her neighbor in the exercising of her rights? That's "civilization," being civilized.



Having the right to do something does not make doing it right. More than the "rule of law" is involved in the situations we've discussed, something deeper.



Bottom line, an American citizen shouldn't need a law to tell her or him not to play very loud music after, say, 11 p.m. unless they live on 40 acres somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Some of our Founders appreciated the value of dispersed living, the value of it to Liberty.



Not 'solution', situation. The question wasn't about rights, it was about 'doing as I please provided..........'



It's one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but are unworkable in reality.






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Old May 17th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
What proposed solution?Of a person taking into consideration the rights of her neighbor in the exercising of her rights? That's "civilization," being civilized.



Having the right to do something does not make doing it right. More than the "rule of law" is involved in the situations we've discussed, something deeper.



Bottom line, an American citizen shouldn't need a law to tell her or him not to play very loud music after, say, 11 p.m. unless they live on 40 acres somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Some of our Founders appreciated the value of dispersed living, the value of it to Liberty.



Not 'solution', situation. The question wasn't about rights, it was about 'doing as I please provided..........'



It's one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but are unworkable in reality.








Ooops, apology on seeing "solution."



Here's the statement from the OP: "A person should be free to do as they please so long as it does not directly restrict others from doing as they please as well."



That sounds great on paper, and for a truly free society, it's a value citizens must hold.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 09:36 AM   #15
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Ooops, apology on seeing "solution."



No problem.



Here's the statement from the OP: "A person should be free to do as they please so long as it does not directly restrict others from doing as they please as well."



That sounds great on paper, and for a truly free society, it's a value citizens must hold.



Agreed. But....sooner or later something one person wants to do will conflict with something someone else wants to do.



Mature, mentally healthy people can usually work something out. Laws are required for the rest of the population.


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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #16
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Ooops, apology on seeing "solution."



No problem.



Here's the statement from the OP: "A person should be free to do as they please so long as it does not directly restrict others from doing as they please as well."



That sounds great on paper, and for a truly free society, it's a value citizens must hold.



Agreed. But....sooner or later something one person wants to do will conflict with something someone else wants to do.



Mature, mentally healthy people can usually work something out. Laws are required for the rest of the population.




True story. At a conservative/right wing local meeting, a man I know and like went on and on about our county's Land Use Regulations. Damn government, Damn it getting deeper and deeper into my business. It's my freakin' house. Do you people know that the county even regulates what kind of outdoor lighting I can have. Damn them. If I want to light up my place like daylight it's my damn business and it's my damned property ... huff ... puff ... huff .... snarl .... red veins popping out on his bald head ... damned right, several members of the audience chimed in.......



Yes, I said, property rights are fundamental to our government as it was intended ... huff ... puff ... you're damned right they are, he said.



I said, yeah, but hey Alex, does the light from your outdoor lighting stop at YOUR property line?



He just looked at me ... I saw wheels spinning in his head .... he slowly smiled looking me right in the eyes, and sat down. After the meeting, he thanked me, saying he'd never thought about it that way.
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