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Old May 21st, 2011, 06:12 PM   #1
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Isn't it a shame that WE the People have been deceived and lied too so long?



USS Liberty Memorial

USS Liberty was attacked in international waters by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, killing 34 Americans and wounding another 173.

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'The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret

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USS Liberty Veterans Association



ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of a crew of 294 officers and men (including three civilians), the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action. The ship itself, a Forty Million ($40,000,000) Dollar state of the art signals intelligence (SIGINT) platform, was so badly damaged that it never sailed on an operational mission again and was sold in 1970 for $101,666.66 as scrap.

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Old May 22nd, 2011, 05:01 AM   #2
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Oh for Christ sake! Why are you bringing the USS Liberty up again?



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Old May 22nd, 2011, 06:59 PM   #3
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Oh for Christ sake! Why are you bringing the USS Liberty up again?


Easy.



Quote:
Commander McGonagle was quietly awarded the Medal of Honor for his and his men's heroism – not in the White House, as is usual, but in an obscure ceremony at the Washington Navy Yard. Crew member's graves were inscribed, 'died in the Eastern Mediterranean..' as if they had be killed by disease, rather than hostile action.


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRZSzdQuOqM&feature=related[/media]
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 03:04 AM   #4
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Oh for Christ sake! Why are you bringing the USS Liberty up again?


The Cover Up





Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

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Israels punishment for the attack and murders?




The Cost of Israel to US Taxpayers

For many years the American media said that “Israel receives $1.8 billion in military aid” or that “Israel receives $1.2 billion in economic aid.” Both statements were true, but since they were never combined to give us the complete total of annual U.S. aid to Israel, they also were lies—true lies.Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that “Israel receives $3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid.” That's true. But it's still a lie. The problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.





Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US / The Christian ...



Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.



This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, a consulting economist in Washington. For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby.



For the first time in many years, Mr. Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far, he figures, the bill adds up to more than twice the cost of the Vietnam War.



http://www.csmonitor...16s01-wmgn.html
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:08 AM   #5
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And aid to Israel is primarily justified because Israel is a "close ally" and a "friend."



By what measure is Israel either? Allies and friends stand with each other, and mutually benefit each other. What has Israel done for the US?



Israel's intransigence on the "settlement" issue alone makes any claim suspect that Israel is a friend and ally.
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:27 AM   #6
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Come on, Intangible Child, I can see that you have no love for Israel, don't you? And you think they are the bad guys, while they are trying to survive as a nation?
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:38 AM   #7
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And aid to Israel is primarily justified because Israel is a "close ally" and a "friend."



By what measure is Israel either? Allies and friends stand with each other, and mutually benefit each other. What has Israel done for the US?



Israel's intransigence on the "settlement" issue alone makes any claim suspect that Israel is a friend and ally.




Israel does do a pretty good job at cheesing off the Arabs. It is unfortunate that all three of the world's major religions claim it to be their holy land. It's almost comical how Palestinians act like they have a country too and try to identify themselves in that manner. Orthodox Jews probably provide the best comic relief if you watch them bobbing their heads in prayer at the Wailing Wall like Canada geese. I never understood why the Muslims insist on joining the same cluster fuck when they already have Mecca to holy-off at. I suppose it's not particularly funny when a bunch of Jews get blown apart whilst trying to enjoy their Seder supper though. However, no sane person can argue that Israel isn't one of the best examples of humanity at it's worst. But, it might give us a good clue as to why nobody got sucked up to heaven during Saturday's rapture.
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 09:54 AM   #8
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The party in power in Israel would happily kill every Arab claiming any right to any piece of the land in Israel. Israeli citizens, however, would like to make some kind of a deal with a Palestinian Authority that did not include Hamas in any way and that would deny Hamas any voice or power. But Bibi Netanyahu and his party would not mind completely destroying any and all Palestinians making any kind of claim to land under Israeli control. Israel does have guilt over certain crimes that have been committed in it's establishment and history, that it should acknowledge, but won't. There has to be clairty from the United States about a willingness to make a deal by Israel when conditions are met that have been agreed upon in the past.



Pen, why is it comical that Palestinians would act as if they had a country too? This is the very problem with this issue, Americans refuse to see that there are infact two sides to this story, at the very least, and simply denigrate and cast aspersions on anyone that might or might not be an Arab that thinks that the Palestinian people ar not entitled to be living in the land that they have occupied for centuries. Rubbish!



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Old May 23rd, 2011, 10:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1306166921' post='336420

And aid to Israel is primarily justified because Israel is a "close ally" and a "friend."



By what measure is Israel either? Allies and friends stand with each other, and mutually benefit each other. What has Israel done for the US?



Israel's intransigence on the "settlement" issue alone makes any claim suspect that Israel is a friend and ally.




Israel does do a pretty good job at cheesing off the Arabs. It is unfortunate that all three of the world's major religions claim it to be their holy land. It's almost comical how Palestinians act like they have a country too and try to identify themselves in that manner. Orthodox Jews probably provide the best comic relief if you watch them bobbing their heads in prayer at the Wailing Wall like Canada geese. I never understood why the Muslims insist on joining the same cluster fuck when they already have Mecca to holy-off at. I suppose it's not particularly funny when a bunch of Jews get blown apart whilst trying to enjoy their Seder supper though. However, no sane person can argue that Israel isn't one of the best examples of humanity at it's worst. But, it might give us a good clue as to why nobody got sucked up to heaven during Saturday's rapture.


Story has it, that Mohammed ascended to Heaven from Jerusalem. But, Judaism isn't one of the world's major religions with less than 14 million Jews worldwide The number of Hindus is estimated at around one billion, the number of Buddhists more than 350 million. There are more Sikhs than Jews. However, those 14 million certainly do stir the pot.



Israel has dusted way more Muslims than the other way around. They don't use suicide vests, rather F-16s. For that matter, the US has dusted way, way more Muslims than the other way around. Terrorism takes many forms.



But the questions remain: How is Israel an ally? What has Israel done to promote US interests? And why does the US go way out on a limb to support Israel?
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 10:39 AM   #10
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Come on, Intangible Child, I can see that you have no love for Israel, don't you? And you think they are the bad guys, while they are trying to survive as a nation?


Love is not the issue, Highway. Each side has legitimate issues. Bad guys? So much has gone down that it's a chicken and egg question as to who are the bad guys, or good guys.



The Israelis have their radicals, the Zionists. To them, the question isn't how to craft a two-state solution. The present boundaries of Israel:







For Zionists, the Promised Land is:







So you can see, the idea of returning to the UN established borders, the claim of a Palestinian state, and the issue of "settlements" in the West Bank are without any justification in the eyes of a Zionist. To a Zionist, the East Bank is part of the Promised Land, as are parts of Syria, Damascus itself. Jordan's capital, Amman, is part of the Promised Land.



Zionists assassinated Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin over the Oslo Peace Process. He was hated by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders. At the time, Benjamin Netanyahu, the present prime minister, was head of the Likud Party. More than 500,000 Israelis have "settled" in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The ultra-orthodox and Likuds, fairly labeled as Zionists, have no intention ever of a two-state solution.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 07:35 AM   #11
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Pen, why is it comical that Palestinians would act as if they had a country too? This is the very problem with this issue, Americans refuse to see that there are infact two sides to this story, at the very least, and simply denigrate and cast aspersions on anyone that might or might not be an Arab that thinks that the Palestinian people ar not entitled to be living in the land that they have occupied for centuries. Rubbish!


It is comical because Palenstinians DON'T have their own country, but continue to insist they are entitled to one. They are operating on the concept that life must be fair to all people and refuse to move on in a manner that would truly result in a better life for themselves and their children. In the meantime they play these cry-baby games with the Jews by slapping up squalor settlements on shitty rocky land that is void of any vegatation just because the Jews do it too. I always love it when they tear the settlement down a few months later.



The real big laughs come when the Palenstinians insist on having the exact same spot as the Jews to build some silly ass temple because one existed there 2000 years ago that was theirs and destroyed by the other. Once again we are taking about shitty arid land loading with nothing but rocks (probably explains why lobbing rocks at each other there is so popular).



Of course the ultimate knee-slapper is when the US comes in and sponsers "peace talks" between the Jews and Arabs. Sometimes they come out all smiley and shaking hands, but always end up stuffing pipe bombs up each other's arses a few weeks later.



It is all really a dark comedy though. Bloodshed abound. Children have grown up for many generations only knowing the violent nature of their existence. Real issues matter less and less as it became personal a long time ago.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 07:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by waitingtables' timestamp='1306173258' post='336431

Pen, why is it comical that Palestinians would act as if they had a country too? This is the very problem with this issue, Americans refuse to see that there are infact two sides to this story, at the very least, and simply denigrate and cast aspersions on anyone that might or might not be an Arab that thinks that the Palestinian people ar not entitled to be living in the land that they have occupied for centuries. Rubbish!


It is comical because Palenstinians DON'T have their own country, but continue to insist they are entitled to one. They are operating on the concept that life must be fair to all people and refuse to move on in a manner that would truly result in a better life for themselves and their children. In the meantime they play these cry-baby games with the Jews by slapping up squalor settlements on shitty rocky land that is void of any vegatation just because the Jews do it too. I always love it when they tear the settlement down a few months later.



The real big laughs come when the Palenstinians insist on having the exact same spot as the Jews to build some silly ass temple because one existed there 2000 years ago that was theirs and destroyed by the other. Once again we are taking about shitty arid land loading with nothing but rocks (probably explains why lobbing rocks at each other there is so popular).



Of course the ultimate knee-slapper is when the US comes in and sponsers "peace talks" between the Jews and Arabs. Sometimes they come out all smiley and shaking hands, but always end up stuffing pipe bombs up each other's arses a few weeks later.



It is all really a dark comedy though. Bloodshed abound. Children have grown up for many generations only knowing the violent nature of their existence. Real issues matter less and less as it became personal a long time ago.




Sadly you have completely misrepresented the history and the situation in Israel today and in the past.



It is the Arabs that own the land on which their mosque exists and the Jewish temple no longer exists. It is the Iraelis that insist that after losing their land it is perfectly acceptable to steal it away again and falsely claim that the people living there for centuries have no right to it. Rubbish. This situation could be easily and fairly settled if the players would start by simple acknowledging the facts about it. And the facts on what both sides have done.



And the Palestinians throw rocks because they are living in poverty and destitution and have no other alternatives. It isn't only about a religious divide. There are very real other factors that feed this fire and cause these seemingly unmendable scars between these peoples. Thre needs to be a solution and an agreement, yet Netanyahu, for all of his scolding of Obama, has offered nothing in the way of any kind of incentive or compromise and is not actively even trying to find a peaceful solution. Know why? He doesn't want one. He wants to eradicate those that are claiming any right to land there at all. It is a sham and a farce. And a human tragedy.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman' timestamp='1306251320' post='336489

[quote name='waitingtables' timestamp='1306173258' post='336431']

Pen, why is it comical that Palestinians would act as if they had a country too? This is the very problem with this issue, Americans refuse to see that there are infact two sides to this story, at the very least, and simply denigrate and cast aspersions on anyone that might or might not be an Arab that thinks that the Palestinian people ar not entitled to be living in the land that they have occupied for centuries. Rubbish!


It is comical because Palenstinians DON'T have their own country, but continue to insist they are entitled to one. They are operating on the concept that life must be fair to all people and refuse to move on in a manner that would truly result in a better life for themselves and their children. In the meantime they play these cry-baby games with the Jews by slapping up squalor settlements on shitty rocky land that is void of any vegatation just because the Jews do it too. I always love it when they tear the settlement down a few months later.



The real big laughs come when the Palenstinians insist on having the exact same spot as the Jews to build some silly ass temple because one existed there 2000 years ago that was theirs and destroyed by the other. Once again we are taking about shitty arid land loading with nothing but rocks (probably explains why lobbing rocks at each other there is so popular).



Of course the ultimate knee-slapper is when the US comes in and sponsers "peace talks" between the Jews and Arabs. Sometimes they come out all smiley and shaking hands, but always end up stuffing pipe bombs up each other's arses a few weeks later.



It is all really a dark comedy though. Bloodshed abound. Children have grown up for many generations only knowing the violent nature of their existence. Real issues matter less and less as it became personal a long time ago.




Sadly you have completely misrepresented the history and the situation in Israel today and in the past.



It is the Arabs that own the land on which their mosque exists and the Jewish temple no longer exists. It is the Iraelis that insist that after losing their land it is perfectly acceptable to steal it away again and falsely claim that the people living there for centuries have no right to it. Rubbish. This situation could be easily and fairly settled if the players would start by simple acknowledging the facts about it. And the facts on what both sides have done.



And the Palestinians throw rocks because they are living in poverty and destitution and have no other alternatives. It isn't only about a religious divide. There are very real other factors that feed this fire and cause these seemingly unmendable scars between these peoples. Thre needs to be a solution and an agreement, yet Netanyahu, for all of his scolding of Obama, has offered nothing in the way of any kind of incentive or compromise and is not actively even trying to find a peaceful solution. Know why? He doesn't want one. He wants to eradicate those that are claiming any right to land there at all. It is a sham and a farce. And a human tragedy.

[/quote]



Times have changed as they always do. It is the Jews who have the land now. The Palenstinians should get the fuck over it and move on. Life ain't fair to nobody. Besides, Jordan is a much more pleasant place to live anyway.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:26 AM   #14
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If it were that simple, the Jews would have moved on long before the establishment of Israel. There can be peace, but there has to be fairness and an ability to let cooler heads prevail. Whenever they get close, a terrorist attacks and throws it out the window. They (both sides) have to stop allowing the terorrists to make policy.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:35 AM   #15
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If it were that simple, the Jews would have moved on long before the establishment of Israel. There can be peace, but there has to be fairness and an ability to let cooler heads prevail. Whenever they get close, a terrorist attacks and throws it out the window. They (both sides) have to stop allowing the terorrists to make policy.




Won't happen. By the way, although I have been harping about Palestinians the last several posts, it is worthy to mention that the Jews act like cry-baby idiots too. The only difference is the Jews have the country and the upper hand.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by waitingtables' timestamp='1306254386' post='336496

If it were that simple, the Jews would have moved on long before the establishment of Israel. There can be peace, but there has to be fairness and an ability to let cooler heads prevail. Whenever they get close, a terrorist attacks and throws it out the window. They (both sides) have to stop allowing the terorrists to make policy.




Won't happen. By the way, although I have been harping about Palestinians the last several posts, it is worthy to mention that the Jews act like cry-baby idiots too. The only difference is the Jews have the country and the upper hand.


They only have those things because of our money and weapons though. Some balls would help and the ability for our people to back us up instead of condemning us over what we say about Israel, it is countreproductive to do that. Who is our president, Obama or Netanyahu? Seriously? While it isn't our land, it is only there at our support. And the people there need to be secure and safe, the only way for that to happen is for there to be an agreement. Palestinian leaders need to say that there is a right for Israel to exist and then Israel needs to fairly compromise with them. Abbas needs to be brave and strongly state that Hamas is not a partner.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #17
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[/quote]



Palestinian leaders need to say that there is a right for Israel to exist and then Israel needs to fairly compromise with them. Abbas needs to be brave and strongly state that Hamas is not a partner.

[/quote]





Primative thinking steered purely on pride, under the guise of religious beliefs, prevent that from ever happening.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 09:42 AM   #18
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I would not say that it will never happen. It's not likely, but it is possible.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #19
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I would not say that it will never happen. It's not likely, but it is possible.




It's gotten way too personal. Only Riva can help them now.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 05:00 PM   #20
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I am glad to see that most of the people here aren't brainwashed by the zionist lobby.
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