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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Your post changes absolutely nothing about what my friend said about Madison.

Davis was acting as a representative of the government and as such her religious views have no bearing on doing her job. Her denying marriage licenses to same sex couples is no different then someone in her position who was a graduate of Bob Jones university denying a marriage license to an interracial couple, or a Catholic denying one to a person who was divorced or a Jew denying one to a Jew and a non Jew or a Muslim denying one to a couple where the woman is not wearing a Hajib.

Every time you post your BS you just further prove that whatever higher education you are implying that you have is worthless.
Exactly.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Your post changes absolutely nothing about what my friend said about Madison.

Davis was acting as a representative of the government and as such her religious views have no bearing on doing her job. Her denying marriage licenses to same sex couples is no different then someone in her position who was a graduate of Bob Jones university denying a marriage license to an interracial couple, or a Catholic denying one to a person who was divorced or a Jew denying one to a Jew and a non Jew or a Muslim denying one to a couple where the woman is not wearing a Hajib.

Every time you post your BS you just further prove that whatever higher education you are implying that you have is worthless.
Your friend is a typical uneducated atheist. He lied about Madison being a Deist and lied about the Constitution being secular. He had as much of a clue what Madison's The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment means as do you.

Davis and what she did and what she stood for was exactly the purpose of The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment.

If you actually read the document, you would realize that you and all atheists are not part of a civil society. You are excluded from civil society by the very document that you have no idea what it means.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Your post changes absolutely nothing about what my friend said about Madison.

Davis was acting as a representative of the government and as such her religious views have no bearing on doing her job. Her denying marriage licenses to same sex couples is no different then someone in her position who was a graduate of Bob Jones university denying a marriage license to an interracial couple, or a Catholic denying one to a person who was divorced or a Jew denying one to a Jew and a non Jew or a Muslim denying one to a couple where the woman is not wearing a Hajib.

Every time you post your BS you just further prove that whatever higher education you are implying that you have is worthless.
There's a place for niceties.

Religion isn't one of them.

So i'll put it out there.

The United States of America is a secular nation, based on human secular rights, of which religion plays no part.

The United States of America is not, has never been, or ever will be a Christian nation.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
Your friend is a typical uneducated atheist. He lied about Madison being a Deist and lied about the Constitution being secular. He had as much of a clue what Madison's The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment means as do you.

Davis and what she did and what she stood for was exactly the purpose of The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment.

If you actually read the document, you would realize that you and all atheists are not part of a civil society. You are excluded from civil society by the very document that you have no idea what it means.
Self-serving gibberish, nonsensical drivel.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
There's a place for niceties.

Religion isn't one of them.

So i'll put it out there.

The United States of America is a secular nation, based on human secular rights, of which religion plays no part.

The United States of America is not, has never been, or ever will be a Christian nation.
That does not exist in American history and you cannot substantiate any of it.
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Last edited by Jimmyb; March 17th, 2017 at 08:36 AM.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 08:52 AM   #16
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to correct the myth that the FF's were bible thumping slack jaws.
Then why was Madison are ardent supporter of religious freedom?
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Old March 17th, 2017, 08:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
Your friend is a typical uneducated atheist. He lied about Madison being a Deist and lied about the Constitution being secular. He had as much of a clue what Madison's The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment means as do you.

Davis and what she did and what she stood for was exactly the purpose of The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessment.

If you actually read the document, you would realize that you and all atheists are not part of a civil society. You are excluded from civil society by the very document that you have no idea what it means.
Actually it is just the opposite. One of the reasons laws against same sex marriage were found unconstitutional is that laws were, for the most part, based on religious objection to same sex relationships. Madison (and the other Founders) stood against the idea of the state imposing religious views on people.
Davis was not acting as an individual when she refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, she was acting as an agent of the state. Outside of her job she had every right to attend anti gay marriage events to her hearts content. That is what Madison and others were protecting. The right of an individual to practice their religion and express their views without fear of government reprisal. The government, however, is not a separate entity. It has no volition, no ability to act on its own accord. So when we speak of restrictions on government we are not putting restrictions on a thing, we are putting restrictions on the individuals that make up the government. The government cannot violate your right to an unlawful search but the restriction is placed on agents of the government. Policemen, Federal Agents, INDIVIDUALS (as representatives of the government) cannot just search your home because they feel like it.

When the Supreme Court ruled that laws banning same sex marriage were unconstitutional they weren't telling some beast called "the government" that it had to issue marriage licenses. It was telling INDIVIDUALS representing the government (which is what Kim Davis was) that THEY couldn't withhold marriage licenses from same sex couples. These individuals are not allowed to replace government rules with their own interpretation of whatever beliefs they hold.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 09:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Your post changes absolutely nothing about what my friend said about Madison.

Davis was acting as a representative of the government and as such her religious views have no bearing on doing her job. Her denying marriage licenses to same sex couples is no different then someone in her position who was a graduate of Bob Jones university denying a marriage license to an interracial couple, or a Catholic denying one to a person who was divorced or a Jew denying one to a Jew and a non Jew or a Muslim denying one to a couple where the woman is not wearing a Hajib.

Every time you post your BS you just further prove that whatever higher education you are implying that you have is worthless.
Madison made freedom of conscience--meaning belief or conviction about religious matters--the centerpiece of all civil liberties. He called religious belief "precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society." By placing freedom of conscience prior to and superior to all other rights, Madison gave it the strongest political foundation possible.

Source = Heritage Foundation

Hence, Ms. Davis's religious beliefs is indeed, a civil-liberty.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 09:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Madison made freedom of conscience--meaning belief or conviction about religious matters--the centerpiece of all civil liberties. He called religious belief "precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society." By placing freedom of conscience prior to and superior to all other rights, Madison gave it the strongest political foundation possible.

Source = Heritage Foundation

Hence, Ms. Davis's religious beliefs is indeed, a civil-liberty.
Good thing the Constituion does no such thing.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Madison made freedom of conscience--meaning belief or conviction about religious matters--the centerpiece of all civil liberties. He called religious belief "precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society." By placing freedom of conscience prior to and superior to all other rights, Madison gave it the strongest political foundation possible.

Source = Heritage Foundation

Hence, Ms. Davis's religious beliefs is indeed, a civil-liberty.
While Ms. Davis is on her own time that is true. The government can't tell her what to believe or punish her for whatever beliefs she has.

What Ms. Davis does AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GOVERNMENT is another matter entirely.

A police officer may believe that all Catholics are members of the IRA and are likely to have bomb making materials in their homes but he still can't search their homes without a warrant while they are at Sunday Mass.
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