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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:41 AM   #1
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Madison on church and state.

Posted by a friend of mine on Facebook

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. . . .
Torrents of blood have been spilt in the old world, by vain attempts of the secular arm, to extinguish Religious discord, by proscribing all difference in Religious opinion.”

— James Madison, "Memorial and Remonstrance," 1785

On this date in 1751, James Madison was born in Virginia. The Deist, who became primary author of the secular U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, and fourth President of the United States, originally contemplated the ministry as a career. After graduating from Princeton, Madison was appointed a delegate to the Virginia state convention. There he was responsible for the adoption of a freedom of conscience clause in the state constitution. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect," Madison wrote William Bradford (April 1, 1771). After being elected to the Virginia state legislature, his famous "Memorial and Remonstrance" defeated a bid to force mandatory tithing in 1785. His memorial warned: "it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties." Madison was elected to the first House of Representatives, was Secretary of State under Jefferson, and served two terms as president, from 1809 to 1817. His "Detached Memorabilia," written between 1817 and 1832, revealed his regrets over the appointment of chaplains to the two Houses of Congress. Madison called it "a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles." He equally argued against chaplains in the military, and religious proclamations by the president for thanksgivings, writing that such acts "imply a religious agency." Madison's personal correspondence was free of religion. D. 1836.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #2
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For what purpose do you post this?
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Old March 16th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
For what purpose do you post this?
He felt like it. He need any other reason?
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Old March 16th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
For what purpose do you post this?
to correct the myth that the FF's were bible thumping slack jaws.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 10:37 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=Daws77;1051622]to correct the myth that the FF's were bible thumping slack jaws.[/QUOTE



but they were, for the most part.....
WE, us, right now, don't know how to separate the church and state.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #6
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[QUOTE=urbrother;1051626]
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Originally Posted by Daws77 View Post
to correct the myth that the FF's were bible thumping slack jaws.[/QUOTE



but they were, for the most part.....
WE, us, right now, don't know how to separate the church and state.
false...
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Old March 16th, 2017, 11:09 AM   #7
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The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessmentswas a reaction to taxes in support of the Anglican Church that was experiencing financial issues. Madison was reacting to the leaders of the Baptists and other Protestants leaders regarding tax revenue going to the Anglican Church of Virginia. This was not a secular argument, but a Biblical argument.

In the timeline in the Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Madison is referring to Constantine. The premise was that monetary support of a religion leads to corruption. Atheists avoid the first sentence so that the meaning can be manipulated.
Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. Enquire of the Teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect, point to the ages prior to its incorporation with Civil policy. Propose a restoration of this primitive State in which its Teachers depended on the voluntary rewards of their flocks, many of them predict its downfall. On which Side ought their testimony to have greatest weight, when for or when against their interest?
The same atheist who railed against the Kentucky country clerk, Kim Davis, are not bright enough to connect the dots between her actions and the Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, which fully supports Davis’ decision to not issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples:
The civil rights of none, shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 12:22 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=Daws77;1051627]
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Originally Posted by urbrother View Post

false...
ROFL.....everything I stated is true.........
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Old March 16th, 2017, 01:09 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=urbrother;1051662]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daws77 View Post

ROFL.....everything I stated is true.........
Also false.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 02:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
The Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessmentswas a reaction to taxes in support of the Anglican Church that was experiencing financial issues. Madison was reacting to the leaders of the Baptists and other Protestants leaders regarding tax revenue going to the Anglican Church of Virginia. This was not a secular argument, but a Biblical argument.

In the timeline in the Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Madison is referring to Constantine. The premise was that monetary support of a religion leads to corruption. Atheists avoid the first sentence so that the meaning can be manipulated.
Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. Enquire of the Teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect, point to the ages prior to its incorporation with Civil policy. Propose a restoration of this primitive State in which its Teachers depended on the voluntary rewards of their flocks, many of them predict its downfall. On which Side ought their testimony to have greatest weight, when for or when against their interest?
The same atheist who railed against the Kentucky country clerk, Kim Davis, are not bright enough to connect the dots between her actions and the Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, which fully supports Davis’ decision to not issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples:
The civil rights of none, shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed.
Your post changes absolutely nothing about what my friend said about Madison.

Davis was acting as a representative of the government and as such her religious views have no bearing on doing her job. Her denying marriage licenses to same sex couples is no different then someone in her position who was a graduate of Bob Jones university denying a marriage license to an interracial couple, or a Catholic denying one to a person who was divorced or a Jew denying one to a Jew and a non Jew or a Muslim denying one to a couple where the woman is not wearing a Hajib.

Every time you post your BS you just further prove that whatever higher education you are implying that you have is worthless.
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