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Old April 11th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #31
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Anytime a liberal starts whining about wealth can income, they suddenly have an onset of keyboard tourette syndrome, and just start typing Regan's name.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #32
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...Don't forget to dump the amount of manufacturing jobs lost to technology and will be lost to technology in the future...Besides the fact that those middle class manufacturing jobs are no longer good paying with all the global competition there is now...

...I have a lot of extended family in teaching and they are starting to realize it's only a matter of time before technology claims most fields of study...Shit their 3D printing houses, eventually you'll need a degree in robotics to build a house...
You are SO right. I've toured multiple engine plants over the years. While most of the machining processes have been automated for decades, final assembly was always by hand. The last plant I was in, the final assembly was entirely robotic. The only people in the plant were the maintenance people that kept the robots running, and a hand full of flunkies that fed parts (piston assemblies, bearings, crankshafts) into the assembly line. If a young person wants to have a future, skip 4 years college and get into robotics and computers.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #33
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That is not what I stated. I pointed out that the service industry has been gaining on the manufacturing for over one hundred years. There was a huge surge in manufacturing after WWII because of the equivalent of $1 trillion in bonds cashed and pent up demand. That lasted until the 1970s. Obama's worst recovery since WWII was policy related.
And what I'm saying is it has very little to do with policy. WAGES simply aren't rising. We have a labor glut. There is simply no reason for companies to pay more. Most are still downsizing. Many companies are posting decent to excellent earnings but NOT because of increased sales or market share but due primarily to cost cutting, making fewer employees do more, cover more territory.

I see it in my own company. When I started in 1995 we had 530 field sales people. 30 instructors and 25 other technical support people.

Today we have 125 field sales staff, 12 instructors and 25 technical support. Not only have I not had a raise since 2007, I've take two pay cuts to stay employed. Our total sales have dropped over those years. Some of it we simply walked away from since it was not profitable, yet we have nearly doubled our annual profit. This is not unusual in corporate America. We aren't the only company that has done this.This has nothing to do with Obama or his policies. It's just a fact of working in this country these days.

On the bright side, starting in late 2015, we underwent another reorg and they INSOURCED those 125 sales people and the 25 tech support. with substantial raises over what they were making contract. Jobs that had been contract for well over a decade. Rumor has it the instructor core may get pulled in as well.

But even then this is more of an anomaly in todays world.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 06:04 PM   #34
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And what I'm saying is it has very little to do with policy. WAGES simply aren't rising. We have a labor glut. There is simply no reason for companies to pay more. Most are still downsizing. Many companies are posting decent to excellent earnings but NOT because of increased sales or market share but due primarily to cost cutting, making fewer employees do more, cover more territory.

I see it in my own company. When I started in 1995 we had 530 field sales people. 30 instructors and 25 other technical support people.

Today we have 125 field sales staff, 12 instructors and 25 technical support. Not only have I not had a raise since 2007, I've take two pay cuts to stay employed. Our total sales have dropped over those years. Some of it we simply walked away from since it was not profitable, yet we have nearly doubled our annual profit. This is not unusual in corporate America. We aren't the only company that has done this.This has nothing to do with Obama or his policies. It's just a fact of working in this country these days.

On the bright side, starting in late 2015, we underwent another reorg and they INSOURCED those 125 sales people and the 25 tech support. with substantial raises over what they were making contract. Jobs that had been contract for well over a decade. Rumor has it the instructor core may get pulled in as well.

But even then this is more of an anomaly in todays world.
I understand that and recognize those issues, but they did not happen in a matter of months or between the start of the 2008 recession and the end of the recession. The policies of Obama deviated from every set of policies dating from Harding through Bush. Even though economic dynamics are different today, they were always different from one generation to the next, but the policies stayed the same. One thing I will add, is Bush should have raised taxes a little during the peak of his boom, that would have given some stimulus if needed via a cut in the tax rate, but it would have been moot because there was no way that tax rates were going to be cut under Obama.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:04 PM   #35
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Middle class boomed under Reagan. You need to wait until more baby boomers die off before you try to pedal the lie Reagan policies hurt the midfield class.
The boom started for the rich/not the middle class, and especially not the poor under Reagan! And it was a debt-fueled boom...so if you liked Reagan's, then you like Obama's QE-fueled debt bomb.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:15 PM   #36
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Reagan and Clinton both enjoyed a growing world wide economy. Bush's blunders and his Wall St. buddies screwed Obama.
Most of all, they got the credit for the last gasp expansion of oil production that cut oil prices drastically from the highs during the 70's....Carter got caught holding the bag on that one.
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It is a wonder that Obama set the ship right to the degree he did.

The US recovery under Obama was better and faster than other developed countries that suffered the same fate.
Obama doubled the US national debt, and thru QE, used almost all of that to bail out his backers on Wall Street. WHAT recovery has the US had under Obama?

If there is one giant reason why the US has a President Trump today, it's because Hillary promised to carry on Obama's legacy, and many of those middle class Americans saw their personal debt rising, earnings stagnating, and in real numbers have been falling out of the middle class....so they were in no mood to stay the course!
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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:28 PM   #37
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Krugman thought 2008 was 1933! John Maynard Keynes proposed an economic plan specific to the time: a less populated United States,with a much younger population, abundant resources...all that was needed was to get money back into circulation.

There is no shortage of easy money today! Instead, there's more money than real wealth. Any new capital spending gets added to an economy that will shrink over time and increase debt...so there's no such thing as free money in an already debt-loaded economy.

So, cut military and security state spending in half, and that will leave enough to rebuild infrastructure and improve all the programs that are in steep decline.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 03:05 AM   #38
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That is hilarious. So you are just saying that you believe that wealth distribution is not only a good thing but necessary for an economy to operate.

No sale pumpkin.
You really don't have a clue, do you?

Wealth distribution is what an economic system does, whether that system is Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Mercantilism, Communism or Socialism or something in between.

When wealth becomes too concentrated, the system breaks.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 03:26 AM   #39
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As usual your logic absolutely evades me. So let's be clear. Obama and the Dems ARE for the middle class. We certainly don't see the GOP cheering for the middle class, or healthcare or minimum wage or tax breaks. Everything the GOP implements is geared toward CEOs and corporations---NOT toward middle American.
It was NOT Obama and the Democrats who said "HEY--let's have a recession!" The reality was something entirely the result of Dubya's war, Dubya's economic policies Dubya's Wall Street, Dubya's deficit, Dubya's deregulation approach....the buck stops with Dubya.
Widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of toxic mortgages; Dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; An explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; Key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels.
AND in walks Obama.........and YOUR logic is Obama and the Democrats were not FOR the middle class? That somehow Obama bankrupted Main Street?? After the damage was done?? You've just put three gallons of crazy in a two gallon bucket, Sugar.
See that is the big lie, dems don't give a rip about anything but power, so they peddle their middle class mantra and to many people buy it. At some point buyers remorse has to set in so I am simply pointing out that for all their B.S things certainly have not gotten better. Republicans are for getting out of peoples way and letting them figure it out themselves. That for dems would be death for their party, without handouts your party would die. Franks Dodd was the cause of the melt down and the housing crisis, that and community organizers putting pressure on banks to give out risky loans.

Fact Check: Obama Had More to Do With 2008 Economic Meltdown Than Bush Ever Did

Your bucket is full of denial
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Old April 12th, 2017, 04:35 AM   #40
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See that is the big lie, dems don't give a rip about anything but power, so they peddle their middle class mantra and to many people buy it. At some point buyers remorse has to set in so I am simply pointing out that for all their B.S things certainly have not gotten better. Republicans are for getting out of peoples way and letting them figure it out themselves. That for dems would be death for their party, without handouts your party would die. Franks Dodd was the cause of the melt down and the housing crisis, that and community organizers putting pressure on banks to give out risky loans.

Fact Check: Obama Had More to Do With 2008 Economic Meltdown Than Bush Ever Did

Your bucket is full of denial


What a load! First of all Gateway Pundit is a RW rag that belongs on the bottom of a parakeet cage and the piece is an opinion piece--not a fact check. Barack Obama did not "SUE banks". He was ONE plaintiff in a suit against ONE bank--Citibank for unfair lending practices. It was considered mortgage discrimination, which is illegal.
And your statement: Republicans are for getting out of peoples way and letting them figure it out themselves is laughable. How can people who are being discriminated against "figure it out for themselves"?? We have laws protecting people from discrimination and we have attorneys who file class action suits against those who discriminate. When was the last time a Republican fought for the rights of those who are discriminated against? The poor. The disenfranchised. The minorities. The GOP talks the talk but has never (in recent times) walked the walk.
The buck stops with the sitting president. That president was George W. Bush--not Barack Obama.

Last edited by Clara007; April 12th, 2017 at 04:38 AM.
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