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Old September 30th, 2017, 04:50 AM   #11
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he won't
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Old September 30th, 2017, 05:02 AM   #12
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he won't
I know he won't. Just wanted to frame what a sad waste he is.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 05:25 AM   #13
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I could source you the actual taped phone call that Johnson made in which he made that very threat.
Yeah, but then you be providing a tape of Lyndon Johnson, a known Democrat, he couldn't trust that.

Do you have a tape of Rush or Hannity saying it?
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Old September 30th, 2017, 05:35 AM   #14
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I went to Saigon, also known as Ho Chi Minh City in 2005. I saw a fun, vibrant city. I live in China and Asia and would be happy to live there if I made enough money and/or my wife was Vietnamese. There were restaurants, five star hotels, bars, even fast food (KFC, I ate there just to say I ate there, which is almost abhorrent since the local food was kickass). I stayed in the "foreigner ghetto", places of cheap backpacker like hotel rooms for $15-20 USD (which were decent actually). I came there from Cambodia on a Sunday and there was a church nearby bellowing the sermon over loudspeakers. There were churches everywhere there, plus Buddhist temples and everything else. I even went to a small casino with slot machines and roulette games. What I saw of the people was that they were reasonably happy, not repressed and living life. I went to the former American embassy and on top of it bellowed the famous Robin Williams line "GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!"

But from all that was knowing that 58,000 Americans were killed there over a ten year period of the war from around 1965 to 1975 (although the "war" officially ended in '73, soldiers and personnel were killed there up to '75 by North Vietnamese and Vietcong. I was very aware of this and thought, really, what a waste, and for what? Was America there to " fight for freedom?? These people have never known democracy and the South Vietnamese were tinpot dictators themselves. Again, just a waste.

Nixon did prolong the war and started bombing Cambodia and widened the war to try to get Hanoi to the table. This was Nixon's greatest crime, not Watergate. Watergate was a bullshit incident that was overblown and Nixon got caught in a honey trap because he kept lying and covering up over that situation. Nixon was actually a pretty good domestic President with fairly strong and good domestic policies (he started the EPA for example). Nixon's real criminality was over Cambodia and beating a dead horse over the Vietnam War which should have ended around 1969 instead of 1973. Again Watergate was some right bullshit and I am convinced that the leader before him LBJ did as bad or worse against his political enemies.

Go to Vietnam. Gorgeous nation, mainly nice people, good times. But you come away from there that 58,000 of our people were killed there plus over a million local people. That's the travesty and Ameroca should be lucky that Vietnam is not another North Korea with nukes under an insane leader, but unlike Kim Fuckhead the First, the Vietnamese Communists won the war.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:42 AM   #15
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Here you go asshole. Listen to this and come back and apologize if you have so much as an ounce of integrity

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qbEPI_9Ju0k
What was shown on the documentary were excerpts from that tape. And the impression I get is that LBJ said he wouldn't out it, at least not before the election, despite the fact that arguably it could have helped Humphreys a lot.

LBJ was more interested in helping the war end.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by senor boogie woogie View Post
I went to Saigon, also known as Ho Chi Minh City in 2005. I saw a fun, vibrant city. I live in China and Asia and would be happy to live there if I made enough money and/or my wife was Vietnamese. There were restaurants, five star hotels, bars, even fast food (KFC, I ate there just to say I ate there, which is almost abhorrent since the local food was kickass). I stayed in the "foreigner ghetto", places of cheap backpacker like hotel rooms for $15-20 USD (which were decent actually). I came there from Cambodia on a Sunday and there was a church nearby bellowing the sermon over loudspeakers. There were churches everywhere there, plus Buddhist temples and everything else. I even went to a small casino with slot machines and roulette games. What I saw of the people was that they were reasonably happy, not repressed and living life. I went to the former American embassy and on top of it bellowed the famous Robin Williams line "GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!"

But from all that was knowing that 58,000 Americans were killed there over a ten year period of the war from around 1965 to 1975 (although the "war" officially ended in '73, soldiers and personnel were killed there up to '75 by North Vietnamese and Vietcong. I was very aware of this and thought, really, what a waste, and for what? Was America there to " fight for freedom?? These people have never known democracy and the South Vietnamese were tinpot dictators themselves. Again, just a waste.

Nixon did prolong the war and started bombing Cambodia and widened the war to try to get Hanoi to the table. This was Nixon's greatest crime, not Watergate. Watergate was a bullshit incident that was overblown and Nixon got caught in a honey trap because he kept lying and covering up over that situation. Nixon was actually a pretty good domestic President with fairly strong and good domestic policies (he started the EPA for example). Nixon's real criminality was over Cambodia and beating a dead horse over the Vietnam War which should have ended around 1969 instead of 1973. Again Watergate was some right bullshit and I am convinced that the leader before him LBJ did as bad or worse against his political enemies.

Go to Vietnam. Gorgeous nation, mainly nice people, good times. But you come away from there that 58,000 of our people were killed there plus over a million local people. That's the travesty and Ameroca should be lucky that Vietnam is not another North Korea with nukes under an insane leader, but unlike Kim Fuckhead the First, the Vietnamese Communists won the war.
The other impression I got from the series is that Ho Chi Min wasn't as much of a communist as he was a nationalistic socialist. His dream was to kick out the French imperialists. But the great commie fear was already deeply embedded in the psyche of the American population and leadership. And Uncle Ho was firmly labelled a communist.

The ties to what we then called Red China and the Soviets in incremental steps was in reaction to the need for more military support from China and Russia as the Americans threw more and more military at them.

Plus the US supporting a series of increasingly greedy, corrupt and incompetent S Vietnam leadership made the famous hearts and minds effort just an increasing abject joke.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 10:15 AM   #17
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The other impression I got from the series is that Ho Chi Min wasn't as much of a communist as he was a nationalistic socialist. His dream was to kick out the French imperialists. But the great commie fear was already deeply embedded in the psyche of the American population and leadership. And Uncle Ho was firmly labelled a communist.

The ties to what we then called Red China and the Soviets in incremental steps was in reaction to the need for more military support from China and Russia as the Americans threw more and more military at them.

Plus the US supporting a series of increasingly greedy, corrupt and incompetent S Vietnam leadership made the famous hearts and minds effort just an increasing abject joke.
Most of the US foreign policy of the latter half of the 20th century was the US focused on expanding their commercial empire and pushing prior imperial powers - England and France to the side. For some stupid reason France almost bankrupted their nation and lost any national prestige they might have had by clinging to their colonies by their fingernails!

The problem for the US colonial strategy of using puppets and dictators, was any nationalist or populist leader who had the support of the vast majority of people was immediately branded a Soviet agent, and in America's most costly colonial war, they perfected a murderous, corrupt strategy they called "Counter-Insurgency" but which was covertly called Operation Phoenix by the CIA. The Phoenix strategy of terrorizing peasant populations into submission could never work permanently and what's worse: it corrupted the US and the Government back home also! As longtime reporter and CIA analyst Douglas Valentine wrote in his latest book: "The CIA As Organized Crime," the agency has kept applying Operation Phoenix tactics and trying to perfect them in every foreign military venture so far...and if Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria are any guides-the strategy is still a failure, but there is no political or institutional leadership left in Washington that will confront the CIA! For me, that's the important legacy of the whole sad, sorry Vietnam saga that people like Ken Burns won't report on....even if they know the details!
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Old September 30th, 2017, 10:37 AM   #18
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What was shown on the documentary were excerpts from that tape. And the impression I get is that LBJ said he wouldn't out it, at least not before the election, despite the fact that arguably it could have helped Humphreys a lot.

LBJ was more interested in helping the war end.
Lets deal with facts. Kennedy was getting ready to pull our service men out of Vietnam. He wanted no part of that mess. Then comes LBJ, who was looking for something to hang his "legacy" hat on. In the end, 58,000 Americans lost their lives because of his miscalculation. And Nixon was no better.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 10:40 AM   #19
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What was shown on the documentary were excerpts from that tape. And the impression I get is that LBJ said he wouldn't out it, at least not before the election, despite the fact that arguably it could have helped Humphreys a lot.

LBJ was more interested in helping the war end.
True, but at the end of that 10 minute tape, LBJ made it clear that, if Nixon didn't stop his treasonous behavior, he would out him. Now if he would have or not is beside the point. He made the threat to Dirksen.
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Old September 30th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #20
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Lets deal with facts. Kennedy was getting ready to pull our service men out of Vietnam. He wanted no part of that mess. Then comes LBJ, who was looking for something to hang his "legacy" hat on. In the end, 58,000 Americans lost their lives because of his miscalculation. And Nixon was no better.
Nope, LBJ's famous words were that he was not going to let Viet Nam become HIS CHINA. What he meant by that is the Republicans ridiculously blamed Truman for the rise of Mao and the Republicans, including McCarthy were calling everybody on the left communists. The same idiotic behavior from Republicans that you see today has haunted this country for decades.
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