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Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:56 AM   #1
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Don't Let The Bastards Set The Terms Of The Argument



Sooooo...let's do something a little different tonight.

Let's talk about the battles we fight and the terms we fight them on.

Let's talk about the "Don't politicize the tragedy, this is a time for healing" crowd.

You don't need me to tell you this kind of talk isn't about "healing," or "respect for the dead." It's about being on the less popular side of a divisive issue, and the sad truth that while the public will howl for common-sense/seriously-how-fucking-dumb-are-we-to-let-this-keep-happening gun control measures for awhile, well, give it a few weeks, and we'll move on to the next thing, because that's what we always do.

So yeah. "This is a time for healing" REALLY means "Let's run out the clock, we don't care about the people who died, and we sure as shit don't care about the people who die in the next one. We just don't give a single fuck."

My whole news feed is full of decent, well-intentioned folks, from the highest halls of power on down to just regular people trying to do the right thing, navigating their way through this dumbass right-wing talking point as though it's a good-faith argument worthy of addressing.

"No, this IS the time to politicize the issue, because XYZ."

And so we get bogged down, bickering on their terms, which is, of course, the entire fucking purpose of the bullshit "argument" in the first place.

Why play along? It's obviously nothing but an empty talking point. Just raw, unfiltered, horseshit.

So TREAT IT like horseshit. Blow straight past it without bothering to notice the idiot spouting it.

"You shouldn't politicize the tragedy!"

"Lord, that's a stupid fucking thing to say. ANYHOW..."

We have to stop participating on their terms. Because the right wing is extremely good at this sort of messaging. This is how "end of life counseling" becomes "DEATH PANELS HOLY SHIT OBAMA WANTS TO UNPLUG GRAMMA AND PEE ON HER WHILE SHE DIES."

Great example of this is how the far-right media dealt with Charlottesville.

You'd think that when a bunch of white supremacist jags hold a rally with Nazi flags and swastika armbands, and their rally turns violent, and people wind up hurt and killed, choosing sides won't be particularly tricky.

But no. After two weeks in the lunatic right wing media spin cycle, suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST took a backseat to the supposed free-roving gangs of Antifa thugs who apparently prowl the streets of every American community, salivating at the chance to beat any innocent passing conservative to a bloody pulp.

And we dutifully played along. Do you remember this? NAZI TERRORIST in jail for MURDERING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, videos of white supremacists beating a black guy within an inch of his life, videos of Klansmen firing guns into crowds, and everyone on the left feels obligated to somberly agree that yes, Antifa is just as bad as the NAZI TERRORIST WHO KILLED SOMEBODY.

And, having been given an inch, the right gleefully takes their entirely-predictable mile. Now suddenly EVERYBODY who protests white supremacy gets swept up under the same heading; we're ALL "Antifa." The whole left. Suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST'S victim is "Antifa," and thus a violent, out-of-control thug who pretty much deserved what she got.

That's what happens when we let them set the terms of the debate. When we play by their rules.

Look at the all the disingenuous blather over the kneeling protests. As you can see from the fans who jeer players for kneeling BEFORE the anthem, this has not one minuscule fucking thing to do with "the flag," or "the troops" or "patriotism," it's entirely about a one group of people saying "Black Lives Matter" and the other responding, "No. They Don't."

And we all KNOW that. So let's stop wasting energy poking holes in the bullshit "argument" that's phony anyway.

"Black Lives Matter." "No. They Don't." That's the discussion that's ACTUALLY happening, the faux patriotism is just a flimsy shield because these fucks understand that even they can't get away with just saying "No, Your Lives Do Not Matter."

Why pretend we don't see the bullshit? Why dignify it? Why allow the argument to take place on such blatantly fraudulent terms? When you see bullshit, call it bullshit.

I know there's an impulse to engage. "Logic is on our side, surely that will win them over." This again, assumes good faith where it simply does not exist.

The vast majority of these types are not rational or reasonable, and therefore they aren't REACHABLE. You can throw airtight logic at them 'till the cows come home, and they'll still go right on believing that climate change is a hoax and that John Podesta runs a child sex slavery ring from the nonexistent basement of a pizza joint.

And you can point out "Oh, you claim to believe X, but Y proves you don't, hah hah!" So fucking what? No degree of hypocrisy can shame these people. We're talking about a "religious" right that bellows about morality when it comes to LGBT rights, or reproductive rights, but unhesitatingly endorses a moral black hole like Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell can inhale stealing a Supreme Court seat, and exhale "Democrats are practicing obstruction on an unprecedented scale" with a smile on his face. They just don't give a fuck.

WHATEVER THE ISSUE, the far right will find some excuse to demonize us, a fresh reason to hate us. Seriously. When presented with NAZI TERRORISM, they actually found a way to come out of a national tragedy hating us even more.

Cult45 doesn't MIND being a cult. They ENJOY being a cult. They're eager partners in their own brainwashing, in fact. They consume their demented, hateful, soul-warping media all day long, and honestly, they seem to enjoy it a great deal.

So I'm pretty much done politely respecting shit arguments offered in bad faith.

Fuck your feelings. You're the "more lives snuffed out? MEH." party, the "literally no number of human lives are more important to me than the NRA's bank account" movement. Your position is pro-murder, and I'm not going to call it anything else from here on out.

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

I won't waste one more moment on any of your ridiculous "guns don't kill people" blather, because I recognize it for what it is; a ludicrous distraction designed slow down those of us working for the changes necessary to protect human lives.

If you don't give a fuck about all this senseless loss of life, I guess I can't make you. You're broken. That's your fault, and your problem.

If you don't understand why we should work to prevent tens of thousands of completely avoidable deaths, it's because, frankly, you're a shit person. You fail at humanity. Cool. I have exactly zero time for you.

I'm done listening to these lunatics. And I'm done engaging with the rage monsters trying to waste my time. I'm going over, around, and through these dipshits from now on. And you should, too.

So when the ranting maniac pops up in the comment thread to slobber about Antifa, or George Soros, or "you can't regulate evil," don't give him what he wants. Don't give him your time.

ESPECIALLY since we now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are better ways to spend that time. Call your Congressman. Call your Senator, your Governor. See, THAT works. Arguing with the dumbass trolls on Facebook didn't sink the GOP health care bill, targeted, sustained activism did.

Bills don't pass on Twitter, folks.

So, do more of that thing that works, is what I'm saying. We're only just beginning to understand how powerful we are. Don't despair, don't waste time...get to work.



https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...f-the-Argument
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 06:51 AM   #2
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Last edited by 04960319; October 3rd, 2017 at 06:53 AM.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:19 AM   #3
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"Don't Let The Bastards Set The Terms Of The Argument". (dailykos)

There was only one bastard in this event, and that was the crazed shooter. Talking around the facts doesn't change that fact. In free-society bad things happen but, we don't allow those bad things to affect our natural freedoms. No gun law will stop a crazed person. But what those gun laws do is take away the natural right of self defense and our defense from a rouge government. As horrendous as this event was, it was perpetrated by one person, don't lose sight of that.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
"Don't Let The Bastards Set The Terms Of The Argument". (dailykos)

There was only one bastard in this event, and that was the crazed shooter. Talking around the facts doesn't change that fact. In free-society bad things happen but, we don't allow those bad things to affect our natural freedoms. No gun law will stop a crazed person. But what those gun laws do is take away the natural right of self defense and our defense from a rouge government. As horrendous as this event was, it was perpetrated by one person, don't lose sight of that.
I take it then you have no problem with what happened in Vegas. To you it's just an unfortunate "side effect" of the god given right to own as many weapons as you want.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:32 AM   #5
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Okay, I read your rant, but didn't get a lot out of it. Ever since I came here I've been trying to be nice, but that is something nobody wants. It seems that the only posts that generate traffic are those that are bombastic and have great shock value. Let me give you a rant that will answer you fully.

As a gun owner I would not abide by any gun control laws. When this country was founded, this nation was built upon certain foundational principles. One of our founding principles was the acknowledgment of unalienable Rights. The Right to Life is an unalienable Right.

In the principle, the Right to Life is presupposed to have been bestowed upon you at birth by your Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be.) Such Rights are above the reach of the government. Early court decisions bear out the truthfulness of the sentiment:

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

That sentiment would be upheld by even the United States Supreme Court until the high Court began legislating from the bench. But, in short, I have an unalienable Right to Life. Inherent in that Right is to use whatever means necessary to defend that Life (and that includes the lives of loved ones.)

"The absolute rights of individuals may be resolved into the right of personal security, the right of personal liberty, and the right to acquire and enjoy property. These rights are declared to be natural, inherent, and unalienable."Atchison & N. R. Co. v. Baty, 6 Neb. 37, 40, 29 Am. Rep. 356

[A]ll men are born equally free," and possess "certain inherent natural rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity.”
-- George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can.”
-- Samuel Adams, American Statesman and Patriot

Gun control would, in my estimation, be a Declaration of War by the government against the citizenry. So, between the right and the left, we seem to be at an impasse. Everybody wants their side to "win" on the basis of a popularity contest.

Today, we're talking about the worst mass murder in history by firearms in the U.S. and let me make it simple for all of you. If you want to lay blame, you can blame the right and the left; Democrats and Republicans; conservatives and liberals; the alt right / white nationalists and antifa / BLM. ALL of you are equally to blame.

Instead of trying to resolve the issue, you make a political football out of gun control. When the liberals / Democrats are in control, they like passing gun bans; when the conservatives / Republicans are in control, they sit on their ass and do nothing. IF the liberals / Democrats gave a shit about the issue, they would decide that gun control is unpopular, so let's get to the root of the problem and do something about that. Conservatives / Republicans many times know what the root of the problem is, but when they are in control they don't do shit to implement a common sense solution.

I'm not a fan of Donald Trump, but he is trying to stop Muslims from coming into the United States. And let's face it. ALL mass murderers who use a firearm or terroristic acts to do the dirty deed are either political jihadists OR they are people on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs.

All of your mass shooters fit one of those two categories. But, rather than to have a conversation about how to better regulate those people and to keep people on psychotropic drugs in check AND, most importantly, use drugs as the last option, not the first we will continue to have these emotion laden B.S. discussions about gun control.

NOBODY gives a shit about those who are victimized. Both sides are using the issue as a political football. Meanwhile we know WHO the most likely mass shooters are going to be, but we will not address it. It requires work and it's boring. Hell, both sides may even have to work together to reduce the wholesale distribution of SSRIs and to denounce Islamic terrorism. It's easier to fret over gun control. Pass all the laws you want, I won't be turning in my gun. But, if ANYBODY ever gets serious about addressing ways that we could have prevented episodes like this last travesty, PM me. Yeah, that's going to happen...
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Last edited by discollector; October 3rd, 2017 at 08:35 AM.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:40 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
Okay, I read your rant, but didn't get a lot out of it. Ever since I came here I've been trying to be nice, but that is something nobody wants. It seems that the only posts that generate traffic are those that are bombastic and have great shock value. Let me give you a rant that will answer you fully.

As a gun owner I would not abide by any gun control laws. When this country was founded, this nation was built upon certain foundational principles. One of our founding principles was the acknowledgment of unalienable Rights. The Right to Life is an unalienable Right.

In the principle, the Right to Life is presupposed to have been bestowed upon you at birth by your Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be.) Such Rights are above the reach of the government. Early court decisions bear out the truthfulness of the sentiment:

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

That sentiment would be upheld by even the United States Supreme Court until the high Court began legislating from the bench. But, in short, I have an unalienable Right to Life. Inherent in that Right is to use whatever means necessary to defend that Life (and that includes the lives of loved ones.)

"The absolute rights of individuals may be resolved into the right of personal security, the right of personal liberty, and the right to acquire and enjoy property. These rights are declared to be natural, inherent, and unalienable."Atchison & N. R. Co. v. Baty, 6 Neb. 37, 40, 29 Am. Rep. 356

[A]ll men are born equally free," and possess "certain inherent natural rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity.”
-- George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can.”
-- Samuel Adams, American Statesman and Patriot

Gun control would, in my estimation, be a Declaration of War by the government against the citizenry. So, between the right and the left, we seem to be at an impasse. Everybody wants their side to "win" on the basis of a popularity contest.

Today, we're talking about the worst mass murder in history by firearms in the U.S. and let me make it simple for all of you. If you want to lay blame, you can blame the right and the left; Democrats and Republicans; conservatives and liberals; the alt right / white nationalists and antifa / BLM. ALL of you are equally to blame.

Instead of trying to resolve the issue, you make a political football out of gun control. When the liberals / Democrats are in control, they like passing gun bans; when the conservatives / Republicans are in control, they sit on their ass and do nothing. IF the liberals / Democrats gave a shit about the issue, they would decide that gun control is unpopular, so let's get to the root of the problem and do something about that. Conservatives / Republicans many times know what the root of the problem is, but when they are in control they don't do shit to implement a common sense solution.

I'm not a fan of Donald Trump, but he is trying to stop Muslims from coming into the United States. And let's face it. ALL mass murderers who use a firearm or terroristic acts to do the dirty deed are either political jihadists OR they are people on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs.

All of your mass shooters fit one of those two categories. But, rather than to have a conversation about how to better regulate those people and to keep people on psychotropic drugs in check AND, most importantly, use drugs as the last option, not the first we will continue to have these emotion laden B.S. discussions about gun control.

NOBODY gives a shit about those who are victimized. Both sides are using the issue as a political football. Meanwhile we know WHO the most likely mass shooters are going to be, but we will not address it. It requires work and it's boring. Hell, both sides may even have to work together to reduce the wholesale distribution of SSRIs and to denounce Islamic terrorism. It's easier to fret over gun control. Pass all the laws you want, I won't be turning in my gun. But, if ANYBODY ever gets serious about addressing ways that we could have prevented episodes like this last travesty, PM me. Yeah, that's going to happen...
I never PM anybody.

But you are welcome to go to any street corner in Las Vegas right now and plead your case with people on the street there right now.

Let us know how that works out for you.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
I never PM anybody.

But you are welcome to go to any street corner in Las Vegas right now and plead your case with people on the street there right now.

Let us know how that works out for you.
Didn't even try top address his post you twit! He is right about the drug thing by the way!
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I take it then you have no problem with what happened in Vegas. To you it's just an unfortunate "side effect" of the god given right to own as many weapons as you want.
Maybe it was a false flag. Who knows.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I take it then you have no problem with what happened in Vegas. To you it's just an unfortunate "side effect" of the god given right to own as many weapons as you want.
Then you take it wrong, as usual. You snarky spin on what I'm saying is exactly the type of hyperbole used when a counter argument is made. Even if a background check of this person had been made they, so far, would have found nothing telling the authorities to disqualify this person from buying firearms. So far, all the police have found is traffic-ticket. ONE-PERSON committed this crime. Attacking every legal gun owner, or trying to make them feel guilty for the actions of one crazed person is not excitable. Which is the foundation for the dailykos article. I'm not buying it.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I take it then you have no problem with what happened in Vegas. To you it's just an unfortunate "side effect" of the god given right to own as many weapons as you want.
Hysteria!
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