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Old October 6th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #21
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Would that be the people who work, and pay for that property? Or, are you talking about another share the wealth scam?
He doesn't want any debate, he wants to preach.
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Old October 6th, 2017, 09:21 AM   #22
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This was addressed by the Pope in the encyclical Rerum novarum (from its first two words, Latin for "of revolutionary change"), or Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor, issued by Pope Leo XIII on 15 May 1891.

A young FDR read the encyclical, and turned it into the New Deal.

Basically it says there is a right to own property(and being the Pope, he saw this as a God given right), but ownership of capital also comes with duties. So while there is a right to own capital and employ people for profit, the capitalist owes those workers a decent life, good working conditions, decent wage,
decent benefits, like medical care and retirement.
You are owed nothing besides what you earn. The end.
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Old October 6th, 2017, 09:23 AM   #23
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He doesn't want any debate, he wants to preach.
I think you ment

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He Can't debate, he wants to preach
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Old October 6th, 2017, 10:35 AM   #24
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The New Deal. LOL Which prolonged, along with the Federal Reserve, the Great Depression. World War II is what ended the Great Depression.
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Old October 6th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #25
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So Locke was a communist?
You did not understand what your article was even about.
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Old October 6th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #26
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You did not understand what your article was even about.
No he did not.
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Old October 6th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #27
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This is a strawman argument.

No Libertarian claims that you have a "right to property".

What you have a right to are the fruits of your own labor. You are free to do with your labor as you see fit. If you choose to trade that labor for "property" then you have a right to that "property" as a fruit of your labor.

What this means is that labor that is rare will be worth more than labor that is plentiful. A person with a rare and desirable skill will be able to trade his labor for more than someone who does not have a rare and desirable skill. A surgeon will be paid more than a janitor. A writer like Stephen King will be paid more than a factory worker.

Is this "fair"? It's the fairest way to divy up the limited "property" available. Does this mean that people won't always get equal rewards in life? Yes it does, but any other system will be even MORE "unfair"
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #28
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The fundamental flaw in libertarian thinking is its failure to take into account the interdependent nature of social life and, in particular, how property is acquired, and must be acquired, in a settled society.

We are all born propertyless.

This is as true for the person who eventually becomes a billionaire as it is for the impoverished. The only way to acquire property in a settled society, where all the natural resources have been divvied up and are already owned by someone, is to acquire it from those who already have it. Those who cannot acquire property from those who own it will die.

If we now say that property owners have the right to do whatever they like with their property – share it or not, hire people or not – this is as much as to say that they have the right to determine, at their sole discretion, who, among those who do not yet have property, shall live and who shall die, who shall prosper and who shall founder, who shall have the opportunity to fulfill their potentialities and whose potentialities shall be quashed. In effect, it is to say that property owners have a right to establish a tyranny over everyone else.

In other words, to grant that people have the property rights that libertarians claim is to grant that some (the propertied) have the right to deprive others of the very things libertarians themselves generally claim we all have a right to – life, liberty, and property.

But this amounts to a contradiction. By definition, no one can have a right to deprive others of those things they have a right to.

It follows that there must be a flaw in the libertarian understanding of the right to property – and indeed there is. Wherein lies this flaw? To answer this we need to take a closer look at what the ‘right to property’ really means.

The Libertarian Error ? Political Animal Magazine
Looks interesting, and it reminds me of something I wasn't really aware of before this year....it seems that the "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" we've all heard so much about comes from John Locke's three L's: "Life, Liberty and Land!" Those FF's weren't about to give up or divy up any of the land they owned already, so only way to bring the lower class farmers and townsfolk on board with the Revolution was to get the point across that they would get assistance from the new revolutionary government if they disobeyed the British colonial directives that no colonists were allowed to move or settle in Indian lands past Appalachia. So, it's get out there, shoot some Indians, drive their families away and burn their villages, and then 'pursue your happiness' by building the biggest goddammed farm you can manage. And oh, if you can afford it, buy some slaves to do the work of clearing, planting and harvesting your new land and you can be rich just like us...and enjoy the libertarian dream!

So, regardless of the fables a lot of overpaid, college educated political science, economics and philosophy grads can cook up, there is no way to have an equality between the guy who owns a modest little house and the fatcat who owns a mansion!
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #29
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The OP goes straight to where they always go, take away person A's money and give it to person B.
When A is Jeff Bezos....fuck him!
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #30
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An employer owes you nothing more than what you bargain for. An employer is not your parents. The better your education and skill set, the better bargaining tool you have. No one owes you a dammed thing!

Careful how you set the rules.
If Capital owes labor nothing, then Labor can eat Capitalists when they get hungry, after all, they owe them nothing either, and fat ones look tasty...
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