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Old November 28th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #21
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So many rightwing lies to debunk!

From Snopes - Fact Check....

The legitimacy of Warren’s claims to Native American heritage has certainly been challenged by many critics, and it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member. But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her:
The former chairman of the American Association of Law Schools, David Bernstein, told the Herald that the group’s directory once served as a tip sheet for administrators. “In the old days before the Internet, you’d pull out the AALS directory and look up people,” he said. “There are schools that, if they were looking for a minority faculty member, would go to that list and might say, ‘I didn’t know Elizabeth Warren was a minority.'”Warren said she didn’t know Harvard had used her heritage as proof of diversity until reading about the issue in the news, according to a Herald report. She also denied that she ever tried to gain a professional advantage through her lineage.
Warren responded she was recruited for the positions and did not “apply” for them; and for the most part, her record did not indicate any identification as part of a minority group:
The Globe obtained a portion of Warren’s application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school’s Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered “no”. For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was “white”.

But Penn’s 2005 Minority Equity Report identified her as the recipient of a 1994 faculty award, listing her name in bold to signify that she was a minority.

The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidate’s heritage didn’t come up during the course of her hiring. “It simply played no role in the appointments process,” he said. “It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty.

The Herald later quoted Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan, saying, “I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Prove that allegation, please.

We both know that won't happen.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #23
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Seems that the difference is that if Warren's claiming a certain heritage for selfish gain (given the argument), she's trying to take advantage of a situation that takes away an academic slot meant for someone who really does have the heritage in question, whereas the Trump situation is not a gain, only something done to avoid an unearned, undeserved loss (i.e., not wanting prospective Jewish clients to turn down doing business with him because of the German background which makes a false association to Nazis & their genocidal atrocities against Jews). The difference would be that it's wrong to make a false claim about your heritage for selfish purposes, but not to disassociate from a false perception association.

It's not being done to take away a slot from someone Swedish at all (nevermind that it's not for selfish purposes), it's being done with the intent to say "I'm not a Nazi, I didn't have anything to do with genocidal atrocities against Jews", which is accurate anyways, for the given situation.

Naziism, just one example of socialism, is what Trump is generally trying to distance himself from. See how far reaching the destructiveness of socialism can be?
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Old November 28th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Seems that the difference is that if Warren's claiming a certain heritage for selfish gain (given the argument), she's trying to take advantage of a situation that takes away an academic slot meant for someone who really does have the heritage in question, whereas the Trump situation is not a gain, only something done to avoid an unearned, undeserved loss (i.e., not wanting prospective Jewish clients to turn down doing business with him because of the German background which makes a false association to Nazis & their genocidal atrocities against Jews). The difference would be that it's wrong to make a false claim about your heritage for selfish purposes, but not to disassociate from a false perception association.

It's not being done to take away a slot from someone Swedish at all (nevermind that it's not for selfish purposes), it's being done with the intent to say "I'm not a Nazi, I didn't have anything to do with genocidal atrocities against Jews", which is accurate anyways, for the given situation.

Naziism, just one example of socialism, is what Trump is generally trying to distance himself from. See how far reaching the destructiveness of socialism can be?
I'd consider increased sales a gain. I think you're splitting hairs here.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 06:24 PM   #25
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I'd consider increased sales a gain. I think you're splitting hairs here.
I'm not disputing that, in fact I essentially asserted that in my argument.

There's a difference between an honest Native American honestly earning a slot in an academic situation and someone dishonestly claiming to be Native American (and BTW it's not my intent to actually accuse Warren of being dishonest, I'm just addressing the argument based on the given premises) to dishonestly grab a slot they didn't really earn. In both cases there's a gain, one's an honest deserved earned gain, the other is the result of a greedy dishonest act.

The only reasonable argument that I think can be made against what Trump did is that the ends does not justify the means. I don't believe the ends justifies the means.

Trump was not unworthy of obtaining the ends he went after, because he's simply putting a stop to being robbed of something. Warren, on the other hand is unworthy of obtaining the ends she went after.

It's not splitting hairs, there's day & night difference.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Seems that the difference is that if Warren's claiming a certain heritage for selfish gain (given the argument), she's trying to take advantage of a situation that takes away an academic slot meant for someone who really does have the heritage in questio....
That fraudulent propaganda meme was debunked in post #21. Try to keep up.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
whereas the Trump situation is not a gain, only something done to avoid an unearned, undeserved loss (i.e., not wanting prospective Jewish clients to turn down doing business with him because of the German background which makes a false association to Nazis & their genocidal atrocities against Jews).
Maybe not so false an association. The Dotturd's father, Fred Trump, was almost certainly a robe wearing member of the KKK in the late 1920's, and the KKK, BTW, also hated and persecuted Jews about as much as blacks.

Fred Trump's Involvement with the KKK







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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Naziism, just one example of socialism...
Boy, the rightwingnut propaganda pushers have really had their way with you, haven't they. Too bad you are so ignorant of history and so extremely gullible.

NAZIS ARE NOT SOCIALISTS NOR DEMOCRATS DESPITE WHAT ALT-RIGHT MIGHT SAY
Newsweek
BY GREG PRICE
8/14/17
(excerpts)
Democrats and democratic socialists were incorrectly linked by some to Nazism following the harrowing protests in Charlottesville, Virginia. The allegations were a huge misrepresentation of what each of the terms means and a poor, surface-only reading of what German leader Adolf Hitler’s party and government stood for. The assertions appear to stem from the official name of the party that Hitler led to take over Germany in the early 1930s. It was called the National Socialist German Workers’ Party — later shortened to Nazi party — and gained power by promising voters to alleviate a German economy mired in depression while also restoring “German cultural values, reverse the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, turn back the perceived threat of a Communist uprising, put the German people back to work, and restore Germany to its 'rightful position' as a world power," according to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The party represented an extreme side of German’s right wing, and the key word in its title was not necessarily "socialism," but rather "national." During Hitler’s ascension, nationalism was preached and took hold, and excluded anyone who wasn’t fully German or considered superior. "The Nazis opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Aryan socialism,’” Bryn Mawr College professor Barbara Miller Lane told PolitiFact in October 2015. “This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."
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Old November 29th, 2017, 05:16 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
President Trump didn't fake his heritage HIS FATHER DID.


I guess you hold yourself accountable for the sins of your Father.


once again RNG is caught in another lie.

This is what Elizabeth Warren Thinks that All native Americans look like




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegqTj3SHO4
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Last edited by TNVolunteer73; November 29th, 2017 at 05:21 AM.
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Old November 29th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Why yes, he was elected to entertain RW you people. We have a clown for President.


AND that's really all the RW cares about. Trump seems to be the latest Svengali---mesmerizing his cult followers with the antics of a 12 yr old. Seriously, what would have been the reaction if Obama had used malicious, outrageous names (with degrading adjectives attached) when referring to his adversaries? But when Prez Dotard does it, it's......entertaining. Amusing. Quite clever. AND...

DESERVED. Because of her political sway??

What possible difference does Warren's ethnicity make? Most of us rely on our parents and grandparents to tell us about our family history. Do we check it out for accuracy? I certainly haven't. AND up until recently, we didn't even have the ability to do so.
Warren was repeating what she had been told by her family members and somehow that has turned into a ridiculous debacle--a scandalous political dispute and another excuse for Trump and his supporters to mock an entire race.
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Old November 29th, 2017, 01:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahgho Boogheroff View Post
That fraudulent propaganda meme was debunked in post #21. Try to keep up.
Before I begin - Snopes is unreliable, I don't trust them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevle.../#739b90b227f8
Fact Check: Snopes Is Liberal As Hell | The Daily Caller
Snopes (Snopes.com) - TruthWiki
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...plicated.shtml
BOKHARI: Why The Left Loves Snopes - Breitbart

(Now I can begin.) And I stated in post # 25 that "it's not my intent to actually accuse Warren of being dishonest [and that] I'm just addressing the argument based on the given premises." I even said "given the argument" in the very quote you cite - saying "try to keep up" back to you would be an understatement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahgho Boogheroff View Post
Maybe not so false an association. The Dotturd's father, Fred Trump, was almost certainly a robe wearing member of the KKK in the late 1920's, and the KKK, BTW, also hated and persecuted Jews about as much as blacks.

Fred Trump's Involvement

with the KKK
Yeah maybe, maybe not. Even your Snopes concedes that there's nothing to back the claim that Fred Trump was a KKK member or supporter & that he was not charged with a crime, mavy have just been an innocent bystander, etc.: https://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/

Anyways, I'm not talking about Fred Trump. Fred Trump is not the president. If Fred Trump is a member of the KKK, then I'm not going to vote for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahgho Boogheroff View Post
Boy, the rightwingnut propaganda pushers have really had their way with you, haven't they. Too bad you are so ignorant of history and so extremely gullible.

NAZIS ARE NOT SOCIALISTS NOR DEMOCRATS DESPITE WHAT ALT-RIGHT MIGHT SAY


Newsweek
BY GREG PRICE
8/14/17
(excerpts)
Democrats and democratic socialists were incorrectly linked by some to Nazism following the harrowing protests in Charlottesville, Virginia. The allegations

were a huge misrepresentation of what each of the terms means and a poor, surface-only reading of what German leader Adolf Hitler’s party and government stood for. The

assertions appear to stem from the official name of the party that Hitler led to take over Germany in the early 1930s. It was called the National Socialist German

Workers’ Party — later shortened to Nazi party — and gained power by promising voters to alleviate a German economy mired in depression while also restoring “German

cultural values, reverse the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, turn back the perceived threat of a Communist uprising, put the German people back to work, and

restore Germany to its 'rightful position' as a world power,
" according to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The party represented an extreme side of German’s right wing, and the key word in its title was not necessarily "socialism," but rather "

national
." During Hitler’s ascension, nationalism was preached and took hold, and excluded anyone who wasn’t fully German or considered superior. "The Nazis

opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Aryan socialism,’
” Bryn Mawr College professor Barbara Miller

Lane told PolitiFact in October 2015. “This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."
It's one thing to claim that Democrats and democratic socialists are not Nazis (although to me that's debatable, because I hardly see a difference in their actions and the actual outcomes of their actions, and it even seems one might be able to argue that Naziism does in fact fit the definition/description of democratic socialists - but that's not my focus right now), but Nazis are in fact socialists, in a "generic" sense. It's a "common noun" type of word, not a proprietary word. One group that calls itself socialist doesn't get to tell people that another group that also calls itself socialist are not actually socialist.
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Old November 29th, 2017, 01:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Before I begin - Snopes is unreliable, I don't trust them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevle.../#739b90b227f8
Fact Check: Snopes Is Liberal As Hell | The Daily Caller
Snopes (Snopes.com) - TruthWiki
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...plicated.shtml
BOKHARI: Why The Left Loves Snopes - Breitbart

(Now I can begin.) And I stated in post # 25 that "it's not my intent to actually accuse Warren of being dishonest [and that] I'm just addressing the argument based on the given premises." I even said "given the argument" in the very quote you cite - saying "try to keep up" back to you would be an understatement.


Yeah maybe, maybe not. Even your Snopes concedes that there's nothing to back the claim that Fred Trump was a KKK member or supporter & that he was not charged with a crime, mavy have just been an innocent bystander, etc.: https://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/

Anyways, I'm not talking about Fred Trump. Fred Trump is not the president. If Fred Trump is a member of the KKK, then I'm not going to vote for him.


It's one thing to claim that Democrats and democratic socialists are not Nazis (although to me that's debatable, because I hardly see a difference in their actions and the actual outcomes of their actions, and it even seems one might be able to argue that Naziism does in fact fit the definition/description of democratic socialists - but that's not my focus right now), but Nazis are in fact socialists, in a "generic" sense. It's a "common noun" type of word, not a proprietary word. One group that calls itself socialist doesn't get to tell people that another group that also calls itself socialist are not actually socialist.
Your list of sources critical of Snopes reads like the Who's Who of the Hard Right Alt Right media.
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