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Old May 24th, 2018, 09:28 AM   #1
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Finally, the Christianity I Love Is Speaking Up!

Christian Leaders Call Out the Heresy of Trumpism


By E.J. Dionne Jr. / May 23 / 5:22 PM


Maybe it takes a royal wedding to offer lessons in what a good sermon sounds like.

Maybe it takes one of the world’s most elitist institutions — a monarchy, for goodness’ sake — to provide a view of Christianity rooted not in conservative cultural warfare (or unrelenting support for President Trump) but in an egalitarian love that will “let justice roll down like a mighty stream.”

And the Most Rev. Michael Curry, who preached for a royal couple and the world last Saturday, isn’t finished with us yet. On Thursday, a group of Christians will march to the White House for a candlelight vigil inspired by a declaration titled “Reclaiming Jesus: A Confession of Faith in a Time of Crisis.”

The presiding bishop and primate of the Episcopal Church, Curry is a prime mover of a statement suffused with a sense of urgency about “a dangerous crisis of moral and political leadership at the highest levels of our government.”

While Trump lurks behind almost every paragraph of this passionate assertion of faith, he is never mentioned. This reflects the desire of the endorsers to focus on what it means to proclaim that “Jesus is Lord.” The opening paragraph makes this clear: “We believe the soul of the nation and the integrity of faith are now at stake.”

At a time when social media and email inboxes bulge with manifestos about the dangers posed by Trump, “Reclaiming Jesus” is distinctive: Its vision contrasts sharply with the approach taken by Christians who are invoking religious arguments in apologetics for a president whose actions and policies seem antithetical to almost everything Jesus taught.

The Rev. Jim Wallis, a progressive evangelical Christian leader and the declaration’s main drafter, credited Curry for encouraging his colleagues to speak out. “The two of us talked and prayed about this for months before inviting a group of elders to join us for a retreat on Ash Wednesday” to discuss “a theological and biblical statement.”

Even if its implications about you-know-who are unmistakable, the call — issued by 23 prominent Christians with long experience in social struggles — “wants to be about Jesus, not Trump,” Wallis said in an interview. The hope is to challenge Christians to reach their political conclusions only after pondering what Jesus and his disciples actually said.

“What we believe leads us to what we must reject,” the signers assert, laying out six core propositions and the conclusions that follow.

If “each human being is made in God’s image and likeness,” then Christians have a duty to repudiate “the resurgence of white nationalism and racism in our nation on many fronts, including the highest levels of political leadership.” A belief that “we are one body” requires opposition to “misogyny” and “the mistreatment, violent abuse, sexual harassment, and assault of women.”

Because “how we treat the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the stranger, the sick, and the prisoner is how we treat Christ,” Christians must oppose “attacks on immigrants and refugees” and “cutting services and programs for the poor” accompanied by tax cuts “for the rich.”

The final three assertions were especially pointed about the unnamed president. Because “truth-telling is central to the prophetic biblical tradition,” Christians should stand against “the practice and pattern of lying that is invading our political and civil life.” It notes that “Christ’s way of leadership is servanthood, not domination.” This means resisting “any moves toward autocratic political leadership and authoritarian rule.”

The declaration’s most barbed conclusion comes from Christ’s injunction to “go into all nations making disciples.” This, the signatories say, demands a rebuke to ‘America First’ as a theological heresy.”

“While we share a patriotic love for our country,” they add, “we reject xenophobic or ethnic nationalism that places one nation over others as a political goal.”

This is a testing time for the country as a whole, but the moment presents a particular challenge to the Christian churches.

Trump, after all, won a substantial majority of the vote among white Christians. The battle within Christianity (and not just in the United States) can be defined in many ways. It is at least in part between those who would use faith as a means of excluding others on the basis of nation, culture and, too often, race, and those who see it as an appeal to conscience, a prod to social decency — and, yes, as an invitation to love.

The question “Who is Jesus?” has been debated for two millennia. It is starkly relevant now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...nl_most&wpmm=1

Evangelical Christians only make up a quarter of the population of religious Americans. While this is the biggest group overall, that shouldn't matter for a nation founded on the principle of a separation between church and state, and true freedom of religion.

The U.S. is actually 70 percent Christian, but that leaves another 30 percent of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and of course the fastest growing group — the religious "nones", who don't claim adherence to any faith. And while it should come as no surprise after Dear Leader's first year of action that he doesn't prioritize the desires of that 30 percent, his constant hammering home that point is a chilling way for those who value the secular way of life that the U.S. has always offered.

As he speaks up for the freedom of the religious majority, Dear Leader's presidency has launched one attack after another on minority religious groups. His attempts at instituting a Muslim ban, even though they failed, succeeded in creating a toxic environment for Muslims in the U.S. — even after the rate of hate crimes against Muslims had already risen over the course of 2016. His inclusion of noted anti-Semitist Steve Bannon on his cabinet and the many threats on Jewish community centers and synagogues put Jews on edge. As for the nones, whether that means atheists, agnostics, or simply people who don't label themselves by any faith community or lack thereof? They might has well not exist in the vision that Trump offered in his speech. (Makes sense I guess. In America, we worship God, remember?)
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Old May 24th, 2018, 10:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Christian Leaders Call Out the Heresy of Trumpism


By E.J. Dionne Jr. / May 23 / 5:22 PM


Maybe it takes a royal wedding to offer lessons in what a good sermon sounds like.

Maybe it takes one of the world’s most elitist institutions — a monarchy, for goodness’ sake — to provide a view of Christianity rooted not in conservative cultural warfare (or unrelenting support for President Trump) but in an egalitarian love that will “let justice roll down like a mighty stream.”

And the Most Rev. Michael Curry, who preached for a royal couple and the world last Saturday, isn’t finished with us yet. On Thursday, a group of Christians will march to the White House for a candlelight vigil inspired by a declaration titled “Reclaiming Jesus: A Confession of Faith in a Time of Crisis.”

The presiding bishop and primate of the Episcopal Church, Curry is a prime mover of a statement suffused with a sense of urgency about “a dangerous crisis of moral and political leadership at the highest levels of our government.”

While Trump lurks behind almost every paragraph of this passionate assertion of faith, he is never mentioned. This reflects the desire of the endorsers to focus on what it means to proclaim that “Jesus is Lord.” The opening paragraph makes this clear: “We believe the soul of the nation and the integrity of faith are now at stake.”

At a time when social media and email inboxes bulge with manifestos about the dangers posed by Trump, “Reclaiming Jesus” is distinctive: Its vision contrasts sharply with the approach taken by Christians who are invoking religious arguments in apologetics for a president whose actions and policies seem antithetical to almost everything Jesus taught.

The Rev. Jim Wallis, a progressive evangelical Christian leader and the declaration’s main drafter, credited Curry for encouraging his colleagues to speak out. “The two of us talked and prayed about this for months before inviting a group of elders to join us for a retreat on Ash Wednesday” to discuss “a theological and biblical statement.”

Even if its implications about you-know-who are unmistakable, the call — issued by 23 prominent Christians with long experience in social struggles — “wants to be about Jesus, not Trump,” Wallis said in an interview. The hope is to challenge Christians to reach their political conclusions only after pondering what Jesus and his disciples actually said.

“What we believe leads us to what we must reject,” the signers assert, laying out six core propositions and the conclusions that follow.

If “each human being is made in God’s image and likeness,” then Christians have a duty to repudiate “the resurgence of white nationalism and racism in our nation on many fronts, including the highest levels of political leadership.” A belief that “we are one body” requires opposition to “misogyny” and “the mistreatment, violent abuse, sexual harassment, and assault of women.”

Because “how we treat the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the stranger, the sick, and the prisoner is how we treat Christ,” Christians must oppose “attacks on immigrants and refugees” and “cutting services and programs for the poor” accompanied by tax cuts “for the rich.”


The final three assertions were especially pointed about the unnamed president. Because “truth-telling is central to the prophetic biblical tradition,” Christians should stand against “the practice and pattern of lying that is invading our political and civil life.” It notes that “Christ’s way of leadership is servanthood, not domination.” This means resisting “any moves toward autocratic political leadership and authoritarian rule.”

The declaration’s most barbed conclusion comes from Christ’s injunction to “go into all nations making disciples.” This, the signatories say, demands a rebuke to ‘America First’ as a theological heresy.”

“While we share a patriotic love for our country,” they add, “we reject xenophobic or ethnic nationalism that places one nation over others as a political goal.”

This is a testing time for the country as a whole, but the moment presents a particular challenge to the Christian churches.

Trump, after all, won a substantial majority of the vote among white Christians. The battle within Christianity (and not just in the United States) can be defined in many ways. It is at least in part between those who would use faith as a means of excluding others on the basis of nation, culture and, too often, race, and those who see it as an appeal to conscience, a prod to social decency — and, yes, as an invitation to love.

The question “Who is Jesus?” has been debated for two millennia. It is starkly relevant now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...nl_most&wpmm=1

Evangelical Christians only make up a quarter of the population of religious Americans. While this is the biggest group overall, that shouldn't matter for a nation founded on the principle of a separation between church and state, and true freedom of religion.

The U.S. is actually 70 percent Christian, but that leaves another 30 percent of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and of course the fastest growing group — the religious "nones", who don't claim adherence to any faith. And while it should come as no surprise after Dear Leader's first year of action that he doesn't prioritize the desires of that 30 percent, his constant hammering home that point is a chilling way for those who value the secular way of life that the U.S. has always offered.

As he speaks up for the freedom of the religious majority, Dear Leader's presidency has launched one attack after another on minority religious groups. His attempts at instituting a Muslim ban, even though they failed, succeeded in creating a toxic environment for Muslims in the U.S. — even after the rate of hate crimes against Muslims had already risen over the course of 2016. His inclusion of noted anti-Semitist Steve Bannon on his cabinet and the many threats on Jewish community centers and synagogues put Jews on edge. As for the nones, whether that means atheists, agnostics, or simply people who don't label themselves by any faith community or lack thereof? They might has well not exist in the vision that Trump offered in his speech. (Makes sense I guess. In America, we worship God, remember?)
Jesus is not your Lord at this present time sorry!

In bold is very funny!

Truth Telling? you don't want the truth you wan the truth to say what you want.

This is globalism at it's finest and in summary this

I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 10:43 AM   #3
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I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
and that was arrogance at its finest - presuming that you are the "you" in the scripture and not me.

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Old May 24th, 2018, 11:02 AM   #4
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and that was arrogance at its finest - presuming that you are the "you" in the scripture and not me.



Tristan, I shouldn't have to apologize for others, but I am sincerely, genuinely sorry for the comments above. Having to apologize for those who claim to be Christian but have so much hate in their hearts is one of the biggest disappointments most of us will ever have.
I sincerely doubt this is what Jesus had in mind when he gave his life in love for the world. The presence of judgment almost always guarantees an absence of love.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 11:07 AM   #5
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and that was arrogance at its finest - presuming that you are the "you" in the scripture and not me.

Trump wasn't mentioned? Probably because it wasn't directed at Trump. How the hell did you make that connection?

Last edited by caconservative; May 25th, 2018 at 08:49 AM.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #6
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Trump wasn't mentioned? Probably because it wasn't directed at Trump. How the hell did you make that connection?
directed at Trump?

Braveheart was directing his quote at me.

why don't you just butt out until you can follow and keep up.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 11:53 AM   #7
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THIS WAS A WEDDING NOT A POLITICAL EVENT... Why would it deal with Immigration, or Jobs, or, Deficits .. .. ...

TDS is Strong in this one Obi Wan
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Old May 24th, 2018, 12:03 PM   #8
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THIS WAS A WEDDING NOT A POLITICAL EVENT... Why would it deal with Immigration, or Jobs, or, Deficits .. .. ...

TDS is Strong in this one Obi Wan
Yes, because so much of the article is about the Royal Wedding.
It's really the entire PURPOSE of the article: rehashing the Royal Wedding, the ceremony, the clothes, the guest list, the reception.
I found it fascinating.

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Old May 24th, 2018, 08:16 PM   #9
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I am not a believer of a religion, but it is shocking to me that any so called "Evangelical Christian" can support Trump on just what kind of person the man is. He is a liar and an adulterer. Divorcee on his third wife young enough to be his daughter. Whoever putteth their wife to marry another is guilty of adultry, says Jesus, who is believed to have been GOD in human form.

Not to mention that Trump is ungodly wealthy and is proud and revels in his wealth. Something about it is easier for a camel to walk through an eye of a needle than to make it to the Kingdom of Heaven? Maybe Trump can procure an anorexic camel and grease that needle hole and he might have a chance to miss hell.

Really nothing new. The Evangelicals in 1980 chose a man who had no real religious background over an incumbent who was a bonafide "Born Again" Christian. Also, most evangelicals believe that God chooses the leader and so you better be behind his choice. But you may go "Well, what about Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot?" "God chose them to smite the people of their sins", they would remark without really getting the connection that they themselves are being cursed and smiled by an angry God.

Why the Churchies love Trump is beyond me, but they also think Joel Osteen is a good boy and not a snake oil salesman.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 08:47 PM   #10
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I am not a believer of a religion, but it is shocking to me that any so called "Evangelical Christian" can support Trump on just what kind of person the man is. He is a liar and an adulterer. Divorcee on his third wife young enough to be his daughter. Whoever putteth their wife to marry another is guilty of adultry, says Jesus, who is believed to have been GOD in human form.

Not to mention that Trump is ungodly wealthy and is proud and revels in his wealth. Something about it is easier for a camel to walk through an eye of a needle than to make it to the Kingdom of Heaven? Maybe Trump can procure an anorexic camel and grease that needle hole and he might have a chance to miss hell.

Really nothing new. The Evangelicals in 1980 chose a man who had no real religious background over an incumbent who was a bonafide "Born Again" Christian. Also, most evangelicals believe that God chooses the leader and so you better be behind his choice. But you may go "Well, what about Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot?" "God chose them to smite the people of their sins", they would remark without really getting the connection that they themselves are being cursed and smiled by an angry God.

Why the Churchies love Trump is beyond me, but they also think Joel Osteen is a good boy and not a snake oil salesman.
Why Trump is a sinner. No different than everyone else.

Your sins are no better or worse than Trumps, My sins are no better or worse than Trumps.

sin is sin is sin.

How can somone support Obama who Bombed Civilians.

Supported the Muslim Brotherhood that burned people in houses of worship

We all have our skeletons..

That is why we all need Christ.
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