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Old June 30th, 2018, 09:47 AM   #51
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Thinking that jobs are the only carrot illegal aliens are after is naïve at best.
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Old July 1st, 2018, 10:08 AM   #52
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There still is one program and as far as I can tell there never was more than one. That was started during WW1 and continues today. There is a clamor from the left to make the migrant workers permanent residents and unionize them and all the other BS. Note that this has been the case during every Prez term of office, not just the target you love to bash, Trump. This from the left,
https://www.splcenter.org/issues/imm.../guest-workers
I didn't see anything about making them permanent residents in your link, but the problems for migrant workers who are mostly employed in agriculture in Canada are the same: some farmers and agribusiness operations see them as easy to exploit, so they need some representation to avoid the abuses that undocumented workers are subject to on a continual basis.

And, if the guest workers have grievances against a particular operator, they should have the option to work for someone else who's in the registry looking for guest workers. That has been one of the proposed solutions up here (I'm not sure if it's been acted upon or not yet), because migrant workers...many of whom don't speak English need some options on their side if there are problems with an employer; and one of the big ones that's not mentioned in that link is sexual abuse and sexual exploitation...mostly of female guest workers of course! They should have a rep and be able to step forward...even file charges against the offender, without having the risk of deportation....the main blackmail leverage that employers of guest workers and undocumented workers go to to avoid blowback.
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Old July 1st, 2018, 02:49 PM   #53
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Fear not. I am well aware of the voting record when it comes to the PA. Everyone voted for it. It went from introduced in the house to signed by the president is just four day !!! Talk about no one reading it !!!! Normally I didn't give a shit about Feingold, but THAT day he was a real live American hero.

However in later conversations about PA and when the rest of the actions were taken, it was usually the conservatives who were most vocal in their defense. I truly can't say how many times I heard the phrase, "if you're not a terrorist ..... " Even on this board.

Of course these were the same people who were later shocked and amazed that the NSA would actually eavesdrop on America citizens !!!!


Sorry--but I'm about to hijack this thread.

Let me tell you about Russ Feingold. Guys like Russ--the decent, honest-to-goodness GOOD GUYS get voted out of congress. Feingold is a Wisconsin boy--my home state--a guy I know. I know his family. I taught with his MILaw in a small town near Madison so I know Russ and guys like Russ.
They vote their conscience and in return they lose their congressional seat. So here's what I conclude:

We the people DON'T want honest, decent, upstanding people running our country and when Trump was elected president it just cemented my beliefs.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Old July 1st, 2018, 06:35 PM   #54
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Most immigrants are in the U.S. legally, something most Americans don’t know


Volunteers help walk dozens of women and their children, many fleeing poverty and violence in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador, to a relief center after their release from Customs and Border Protection on Friday in McAllen, Tex.


Misinformation about America’s immigrant population is rampant.

Some of it is based on bad data. Turning Point USA’s Charlie Kirk tweeted a claim on Wednesday that more than a third of the murders in America are committed by immigrants in the country illegally. While it should be obvious to an impartial observer that this claim is questionable, Kirk appears to have calculated it based on data published in an opinion piece at the Hill. That article claimed that a tally of murders by the Government Accountability Office covering a period from 1955 to 2010 among immigrants in the country both legally and illegally was, instead, just homicides by undocumented immigrants from 2005 to 2008. Kirk is a strong supporter of President Trump and vice versa. (Earlier that day, Trump had called him a “spectacular person.”) Kirk’s willingness to present a bit of data that matched Trump’s rhetoric may have made him more likely to accept the flawed numbers from the Hill.

Some of the misinformation, on the other hand, appears to be intentional. Trump’s own repeated insistence that immigrants bring crime has been debunked repeatedly, including by The Post. He said it at the outset of his campaign, and it was debunked, and he kept on saying it. A new poll from Pew Research Center, for what it’s worth, shows that most Americans know that Trump is incorrect. Sixty-five percent of Americans say that immigrants are not more likely to commit serious crimes than native-born Americans, which is true. (Quite the opposite.)
Most Americans, though, don’t know that. Pew asked respondents whether most immigrants in the United States were here legally or illegally. Only 45 percent said, correctly, that most are here legally. A slightly lower percentage, 42 percent, said illegally.

There are interesting demographic splits. Hispanic respondents, for example, were more likely to say that most immigrants here came illegally. Republicans were more likely to say “illegally” than “legally,” by a 11-point margin. Democrats were much more likely to get the question correct. So were younger Americans.

Foreign Born Population
Pew Research Center, Census Bureau
Legally Illegally

Most Americans, though, don’t know that. Pew asked respondents whether most immigrants in the United States were here legally or illegally. Only 45 percent said, correctly, that most are here legally. A slightly lower percentage, 42 percent, said illegally.

There are interesting demographic splits. Hispanic respondents, for example, were more likely to say that most immigrants here came illegally. Republicans were more likely to say “illegally” than “legally,” by a 11-point margin. Democrats were much more likely to get the question correct. So were younger Americans.
That may overlap with another interesting demographic break. Older Americans are less likely to be college-educated, and non-college-educated respondents were much more likely to get the response wrong. Most college graduates correctly said that most immigrants are here legally. About half of those without college degrees were incorrect.

Further broken down by party, the results are stark. Most non-college-educated Republicans think that most immigrants are here illegally. Nearly three-quarters of college-educated Democrats think that they are here legally. Republican college graduates were only slightly more likely than Democrats without degrees to get the question correct.

Why did so many people get this wrong? It’s hard to say, and Pew doesn’t speculate. It may be a function of the extent of media coverage of illegal immigration in the overall immigration debate. It’s not clear.

But the repercussions of that erroneous impression seem obvious. If you think that the immigration system is so flawed that most immigrants are here after having violated the law, your perception of how to approach immigration from a policy standpoint may reflect that.

Or it may not. Last week we noted another poll from Gallup. That poll found that immigration is seen as a “good thing” by three-quarters of the country, the highest percentage since they started asking the question in 2001.


When Gallup differentiated the question with “legal” immigration, we’ll note, support jumped even higher.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.16d601c0ef3c

And, ONCE AGAIN, we see that it's the old (read: stubborn, pig-headed, close-minded) and uninformed and uneducated who refuse to see the truth and acknowledge it when it's pointed out. The willfully and stubbornly ignorant and sophophobic.
Great observation, you see these LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are the IMMIGRATANTS THAT ARE NO THE PROBLEM.


TRISTAN GET A DICTIONARY, LOOK UP THE TERM ILLEGAL, CONSERVATIVES ARE NOT ANTI-IMMIGRANT THEY ARE ANTI-ILLEGAL.

LEGAL IMMIGRANTS KNOCKED ON THE DOOR AND SAY MAY WE COME IN.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS INVADED THE HOME.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 10:23 AM   #55
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Sorry--but I'm about to hijack this thread.

Let me tell you about Russ Feingold. Guys like Russ--the decent, honest-to-goodness GOOD GUYS get voted out of congress. Feingold is a Wisconsin boy--my home state--a guy I know. I know his family. I taught with his MILaw in a small town near Madison so I know Russ and guys like Russ.
They vote their conscience and in return they lose their congressional seat. So here's what I conclude:

We the people DON'T want honest, decent, upstanding people running our country and when Trump was elected president it just cemented my beliefs.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Was the problem "we the people" or "we the DNC and Democratic establishment?" Cause what little I know of Russ Feingold- he was an uncompromising reformer who wasn't afraid to: trash 'Dodd-Frank' and other weak sauce 'Wall Street reform measures,' vote against the Patriot Act or the Iraq War...where was Hillary on those issues again....hmmm. I recall from TYT coverage, that Ron Johnson's attack ads against Russ Feingold mostly focused on clear policy positions Russ took and stood by....maybe if the rest of the Party was standing with him instead of running for cover, it might have made a difference.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 04:53 PM   #56
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Was the problem "we the people" or "we the DNC and Democratic establishment?" Cause what little I know of Russ Feingold- he was an uncompromising reformer who wasn't afraid to: trash 'Dodd-Frank' and other weak sauce 'Wall Street reform measures,' vote against the Patriot Act or the Iraq War...where was Hillary on those issues again....hmmm. I recall from TYT coverage, that Ron Johnson's attack ads against Russ Feingold mostly focused on clear policy positions Russ took and stood by....maybe if the rest of the Party was standing with him instead of running for cover, it might have made a difference.

It's complicated but you have a point. Democrats didn't vote. They were complacent....not only locally but nationally. But there's more. Russ had high name recognition, well-liked--Johnson, not so much. But Johnson had something that Russ didn't have. MONEY--LOTS OF MONEY. The campaign started with "attack" tactics, then suddenly Johnson (ultra suave multi-millionaire with Koch support) turned into an "aw shucks--ain't Washington stinky" routine. Blue collar Northerners bought it.

Johnson also used some of the same strategies as Trump: I'm a businessman. I know manufacturing. I'm not a politician.
Hard to believe that ANYONE buys that twaddle. If you're running a campaign--YOU ARE A POLITICIAN. Period.

I just hope Democrats GRASP the error of their obviously false sense of security.
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 06:15 PM   #57
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There are many reasons why business wants to hire foreign workers. Just a couple.
Most workers brought to this country under sponsored work visas have a far better work ethic than most Americans. They take the attitude that they are on probation and need to show their best to earn permanent status.

They are in the country legally, thus are not a threat of govt actions to their employer.

They come to the new employer with a full skill set that does not need the "finishing" that many domestics do. The American systems of education waste so much time and money on forming politically correct and socially acceptable drones that they neglect the skills necessary to be competitive in todays world.
You're not wrong here. BUT !!!! What we want to avoid, or more accurately STOP is what Disney did not too long ago. Basically they LIED on their H1B application. One of the rules for H1B is the NO american workers are to be displaced by foreign workers.

Disney received clearance for 250 IT people. Their AMERICAN IT people all received their pinks slips. Some were even asked to remain on the job for a while to TRAIN the new guys.

THIS is something that should not be allowed. Unfortunately the people at Disney will never be investigated much less face any real justice. Their top brass can donate more at one rubber chicken fund raiser than 1000 of us Joe Smoes could raise in a life time.
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 06:25 PM   #58
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It's complicated but you have a point. Democrats didn't vote. They were complacent....not only locally but nationally. But there's more. Russ had high name recognition, well-liked--Johnson, not so much. But Johnson had something that Russ didn't have. MONEY--LOTS OF MONEY. The campaign started with "attack" tactics, then suddenly Johnson (ultra suave multi-millionaire with Koch support) turned into an "aw shucks--ain't Washington stinky" routine. Blue collar Northerners bought it.

Johnson also used some of the same strategies as Trump: I'm a businessman. I know manufacturing. I'm not a politician.
Hard to believe that ANYONE buys that twaddle. If you're running a campaign--YOU ARE A POLITICIAN. Period.

I just hope Democrats GRASP the error of their obviously false sense of security.
Not sure what happened to Feingold.

Trump however is easy enough to see. Once the email dump came and people realized just how badly Hillary and the DNC had screwed Bernie, many of the Bernie supporters, people who, had he been FAIRLY beaten in the primaries, would have gone on to vote for Hillary, simply didn't. They either stayed home or voted for third party candidates. It all came down to 87,000 votes is five counties. Considering that each of those counties had 100,000 plus votes for alternative candidates, it simple math.

Trump has set a new very low bar for anything in the name of ethic, morals or principals. He simply doesn't have any. So if the Dems run even moderately clean candidates and have a clear message, they should be able to get something going.
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Old July 4th, 2018, 04:19 AM   #59
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Not sure what happened to Feingold.

Trump however is easy enough to see. Once the email dump came and people realized just how badly Hillary and the DNC had screwed Bernie, many of the Bernie supporters, people who, had he been FAIRLY beaten in the primaries, would have gone on to vote for Hillary, simply didn't. They either stayed home or voted for third party candidates. It all came down to 87,000 votes is five counties. Considering that each of those counties had 100,000 plus votes for alternative candidates, it simple math.

Trump has set a new very low bar for anything in the name of ethic, morals or principals. He simply doesn't have any. So if the Dems run even moderately clean candidates and have a clear message, they should be able to get something going.

YEP--the DNC really screwed up but so did the RNC.

Here's what we know for sure. With the advent of the Trump administration, politics is forever altered OR at least for a long time--particularly the executive branch. The Right let the genie out of the bottle when they supported and elected a man so vile--so stupid--so ego-driven.
They ALONE moved the goalposts and set themselves up for (more than likely) a LIFETIME of candidates who will use Trump as some sort of role model. Their "standards" began to plummet with Obama's presidency and they've continued their downward spiral...AND they know it but won't acknowledge it in public. We already know what they are saying behind closed doors.

In my opinion, the RNC will pay dearly for the Trump years--maybe not in November and maybe not EVEN in 2020--but the Trump Plague will infect ALL future candidates and will become the template for future candidates across this country--locally and nationally. It's already started.

NO MORE can the GOP use lack of experience in law/legalese, lack of intelligence, lack of constitutional law, lack of integrity, lack of decency, lack of military leadership........fill in the blanks as a laundry list-- for choosing presidential candidates. AND the worst part is THEY think THEY'VE WON.

The joke is on them. Apologies for another hi-jack, folks.
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