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Old July 5th, 2018, 11:27 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
In the Bible the word translated as slavery is also often translated as servant. My opinion slavery in ancient times was different and not as evil as what was practiced in America.
There was this slave names Spartacus, forced to fight in the arena. He led a revolt of slaves. I am pretty sure they did not risk their lives because their life was like Disney Land or something
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Old July 5th, 2018, 11:49 AM   #12
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Any "religious" tome which advocates executing people for mixing dairy and seafood or for mixing 2 different kinds of cloth is perfectly "reasonable".
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Old July 5th, 2018, 11:50 AM   #13
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In the Bible the word translated as slavery is also often translated as servant. My opinion slavery in ancient times was different and not as evil as what was practiced in America.
That's because you are an imbecile. Slaves were so plentiful in Rome that many were literally worked to death. Maybe you should spend more time reading actual history books than religious gibberish.

Last edited by GluteusMaximus; July 5th, 2018 at 11:53 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
That's because you are an imbecile.
like the very word 'slavery' isn't clue enough



fuck, Scarlett called Mammy a "servant" too - didn't mean she wasn't a slave!
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:13 PM   #15
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First of all this is a typical liberal spin to take attention off of our real problem -- Islam. So this entire topic is nothing more than a spin in defense of Islamic terrorism which is very clearly taught in the Qur'an and Sunnah as I have cited enough on this forum where even 7 year old kids would understand it. What is wrong with you liberals that you feel you need to lie so much? So here I will refute your delusions.

The best way to prove evolution theory never happened is to answer Biblical skepticism from atheist. This proves atheists have no credibility.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Are Christian teachings compatible with U.S. law?
The entire U.S. Law was found on Judeo-Christian principles. It was not founded on atheism as Ben Franklin very clearly states. n his pamphlet entitled Information to Those Who Would Remove to America, written to Europeans who were considering the move to America or intending to send their young people to seek their fortune in this land of opportunity, Benjamin Franklin wrote:

Quote:
"Hence bad examples to youth are more rare in America, which must be a comfortable consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced.
Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an atheist or an Infidel.
And the Divine Being seems to have manifested his approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness with which the different sects treat each other; by the remarkable prosperity with which he has been pleased to favor the whole country." (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.247)
So here is absolute proof our laws were not founded on the moral relativism of atheism. Case closed.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Are the teachings of the bible a civil rights violation?
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Does the bible hold any moral value that we Americans need?
Absolutely! All our founding fathers agreed that Biblical morale was essential in establishing a civilized society.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Should Christian teachings be taught in schools?
Don't ask me, ask Noah Webster who was our great American educator. The Bible was the source of all teachings in all academic classes which catapulted our nation to the world's #1 educated nation in the world. That all changed, of course, under the militant atheism of John Dewey and others after him who taught moral relativism which has resulted in the lesser educated generation we see today. So yeah, Noah Webster wins this debate with ease.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Bible endorsing slavery:
Ephesians 6
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
Here is the entire passage that atheists never want to quote.

Ephesians 6, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
Children and Parents
6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

Bondservants and Masters
5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; 6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
Many people became Christians, from slaves to Roman masters of slaves. All of them were instructed to serve the Lord which included slaves being obedient to their masters and masters treating their slaves fairly. Back then Rome was in power and there was no abolishing slavery without overthrowing Rome. Slavery was the practice of the entire ancient world. William Wilberforce is the man who's sermon's from the Bible abolished slavery in both Europe and the United States. Yes, Lincoln read the words of Wilberforce.

Here is a passage condemning slavery, as we were all bought for a price which is Christ' blood. There we are slaves to Christ and no one else. The following passage further discredits evolution theory as it says the opposite of what atheist claim the Bible teaches:

1 Corinthians 7:20-23, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
2 Corinthians 3:17, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Slavery was abolished by Christians. Slavery today continues in Islamic countries where our slaves were bought and purchased from. Sex slave trafficking is also led by Islam as the Sunnah condones:

Musnad Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Vol.1, Hadith 585,

Quote:
"585. It was narrated from 'Ali that he said: "The last words of the Messenger of Allah were: "Prayer, prayer! And fear Allah with regard to what your right hand possesses [i.e., female slaves]."

Comments: [Hadeeth Saheeh and its isnad is hasan]"
Even if a woman's husband is still alive she can be taken as a slave and raped repeatedly.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol.2, Chapter 43/44, Hadith 2155,

"Chapter 43/44. Regarding Intercourse With Captives

Quote:
2155. Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri narrated that the Messenger of Allah sent an expedition to Awtas on the Day of Hunain, and they met the enemy, fought them, and won the battle. They captured some slaves, but some of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah felt uncomfortable in having relations with them because of their pagan husbands. At this, Allah revealed: "And chaste, free women, except for those whom your right hand possesses..." meaning that they are allowed for you after their waiting periods have finished." (Sahih)
This is just a small sample of what the Qur'an and Sunnah teach about sex slavery. Muhammad also had black slaves which muslms referred as animals.

Sunan An-Nasa'i, Vol.5, Book 44, Chapter 66, hadith 4625

Quote:
"Chapter 66. Selling Animals
For Animals Of Different
Amounts Or Quality, Hand To
Hand
4625. It was narrated that Jabir
said: "A slave came and gave his
pledge to the Messenger of Allah
to emigrate, and the Prophet
did not realize that he was a slave.
Then his master came looking for
him. The Prophet said: "Sell him
to me.' So he bought him for two
black slaves, then he did not accept
the pledge of anyone after that
until he had asked: 'Is he a slave?"
(Sahih)

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Bible endorsing misogyny:
1 Corinthians 14
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
What this passage is saying is that women are not to lead and become Pastors. They have always been allowed to sing in church etc. In the Christian faith, men and women have different roles in life which makes family life better. Men are better leaders and don't rush to emotion decisions like Hillary Clinton does. But even in the Anglican Church we see how Great Britain has had Queens which, in many cases, have done good for the church when leading. But a woman's role in life is not the same as a man's. Men do the hard labor and fight in wars. Women raise up their children while the man is working. That is how all societies have functioned from the dawn of time. Feminism is backwards, going against the grain of nature.

Ephesians 5:22-33, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
Marriage—Christ and the Church
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
This is how monogamous relationships work in true life. This is the God ordained nature of man and wife. The sexual revolution opposed monogamous love should be very disturbing to any human being who has a clear and moral conscience.

Colossians 3:18-25, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
The Christian Home
18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

20 Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord.

21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.

22 Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for[a] you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Bible commanding genocide:
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV.
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
This was the command for Israel only. Their enemies were wicked and God Himself ordered that they be either driven out and killed. This is how wars are fought back then. You will not find an order for the Jews to slaughter all unbelievers in the world. But in the Qur'an we do find an order to slaughter all unbelievers in the world until there is no more disbelief left and only Islam remains:

Noble Qur'an 2:193, Madinah Period

Quote:
"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone).* But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

*footnote: "(V.2:193)
(A) Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people till they testify that La illallah wa Anna Muhammmad-ur-Rasul Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and give Zakat, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives, and properties from me except for Islamic laws, and their reckoning (accounts) will be with (done by) Allah." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 1, Hadith No.24).
Tafsir Al-Qurtubi,

Quote:
"Fight them until there is no more fitna and the deen belongs to Allah alone.
This is a command to fight every idolater in every place according to those who say that it abrogates the previous ayats. According to those who say that it does not abrogate other ayats, it means: fight those about whom Allah says, "if they fight you". The former is the more likely meaning. It is an unqualified command to fight without any precondition of hostilities being initiated by the unbelievers. The evidence for that is in the words of Allah, "and the din belongs to Allah alone." The Prophet said, " I was commanded to fight people until they say, 'There is no god but Allah.' The ayat and hadith both indicate that the reason for fighting is disbelief because Allah says, "until there is no more fitna," meaning disbelief in this case. So the goal is to abolish disbelief and that is clear.
Ibn 'Abbas, Qatada, ar-Rabi', as-Suddi and others said that fitna here means shirk and the subsequent injury to the believers caused by it. The root of fitna is testing and trial, derived from the term for testing silver when it is put in the fire to separate the impurities from the pure metal.

If they cease, there should be no enmity towards any but wrongdoers.
If they stop and become Muslim or submit by paying jizya in the case of the people of the Book. Otherwise they should be fought and they are wrongdoers and only transgress against themselves. What is done to the wrongdoers is called enmity since it is the repayment of enmity. Wrongdoing and injustice involve enmity and repayment of enmity is also called enmity. The wrongdoers are either those who initiate fighting or those who remain entrenched in disbelief and fitna."
There is no order in all the Bible that says we believers must wiped out all disbelief. Good luck finding the verse that says that! I can go on and on and on with Qur'an and Sunnah quotes which command believers to wipe out all disbelievers worldwide and afterwords even blow up the earth itself so that life no longer remains on the planet!!!

Last edited by Ploughboy; July 5th, 2018 at 03:11 PM.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:20 PM   #16
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There was this slave names Spartacus, forced to fight in the arena. He led a revolt of slaves. I am pretty sure they did not risk their lives because their life was like Disney Land or something
When the Hebrews used to practice Jubilee , slaves were freed every seventh year.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:25 PM   #17
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When the Hebrews used to practice Jubilee , slaves were freed every seventh year.
And I suppose you think they should have said thank you.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Are Christian teachings compatible with U.S. law?
Are the teachings of the bible a civil rights violation?
Does the bible hold any moral value that we Americans need?
Should Christian teachings be taught in schools?


This is obviously a parallel parody of another thread.
But to give some similar examples...

Bible endorsing slavery:
Ephesians 6
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

Bible endorsing misogyny:
1 Corinthians 14
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Bible commanding genocide:
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV.
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
Yes it is compatible, but what the US cannot have as a law is that you MUST be a Christian, or you MUST NOT be a Christian. or Muslim or Buddhist, etc.

prohibit or require a belief.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:38 PM   #19
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Beating and stoning of children, don't forget that part. And the same for cheating wives.
Look at the society atheism has created with such disobedient spoil kids who have no respect for the elderly and don't even know where they came from. Women cheat on their husbands over a man with more money or a bigger dick. Yeah, we've seen where the moral relativism of atheism has led society. Women confined to their pill box, babies being aborted because the woman no longer has it instilled in her the moral obligations of having a family and would rather murder her own children than allow them to be born. A society that hates children will cease to exist. A society that cannot control the youth will perish to ignorance. Our education system is proof the youth today have no direction. This did not happen in ancient Israel. Children listened to their parents and wives were submissive to their husbands. And nobody wants a wife that is gonna cheat on them. A society of divorce is a society that has lost love.

God expected the Israelites to be holy as God is Holy. He did many miracles in the sight of all Israel and the Israelites saw the glory of God manifested as God would reveal Himself to them. In one passage some of the elders were invited to party with God:

Exodus 24:9-11, New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
On the Mountain with God
9 Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.
All of Israel saw the God that led them out of Egypt. The surrounding nations were terrified of Israel because of all God has done for them. Some of the descriptions of God in Exodus kinda make some think that it was an Alien encounter, and to some degree these people are correct. It was a close encounters with an Alien Being, but this Being was not an evolved alien on planet X that flew around in UFOs. But the description, when read rationally, doesn't deviate far from that motif. God tells us who He Is. He left us testimony from Him with instructions for Israel which would eventually become a new covenant with all mankind through Jesus Christ...the word made flesh.

I have read Exodus many times over. Something extraordinary happened that is not of this world. There is no doubt that God made a covenant with the Israelites. But that covenant was not made with any other nation. The new covenant is made for the whole world -- and that is the covenant we all live in whether we believe or not.

Last edited by Ploughboy; July 5th, 2018 at 03:09 PM.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 02:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
like the very word 'slavery' isn't clue enough



fuck, Scarlett called Mammy a "servant" too - didn't mean she wasn't a slave!
A bit fuzzy but I seem to remember a scene where Mammy and the older man servant who was a Butler I think were discussing the fact that they were now free and what they should do. They were slaves but called servants ala the Romans.
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