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Old July 5th, 2018, 07:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Well, it's not fuzzy to me.

You're talking about a scene that happens almost at the end of the movie after they've been SLAVES for the entire time.

But were called servants a la the Romans.
Not to argue about the point of the movie, but generally in ancient times slavery was also a form of famine relief. For back in those days if you did not have a job you were just plain foocked! Some people would willingly become slaves to keep themselves from becoming nomads in the desert. And yeah, war kept the business of slavery just a booming!
Being a slave in Rome could be a good or bad thing depending on who your master was. An interesting thing about Roman slavery is that slaves were allowed to be educated. Some slaves would become more educated than their Roman masters. But that all would depend on how cool your slave master was. Its like having a cool boss vs. a bad one (except bad bosses back then could have you killed).

So not all slavery has always been brutal slavery. History is full of slavery and some of it is cruel while some people wanted to become slaves to stay alive and have shelter. A slave had a home and a family which he earned through slavery. In no way am I condoning any form of slavery here. I'm just speaking the truth about slavery in ancient times. Even in the south not all slave masters were brutal. Most of them weren't. They used slaves for the cotton fields which was the heart of the south. Beating slaves for no reason or killing them was just plain stupid since they were the workers. Some slave owners had a mind of reason and treated their slaves very well. In fact, some slaves were treated so well that they did not want to leave their masters once set free. So slavery is a long history and not all that history is the same and the good and bad elements overlap these historical events.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #32
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omg

we actually have somebody here who is saying slavery can be a good thing

you can't make this shit up

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Some slaves were treated so well that they did not want to leave their masters once set free
and some women who have their jaws broken and arms fractured and internal injuries from the beatings by their husbands do not leave them

SO THE FUCK WHAT

jesus, you're one sick puppy
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Old July 6th, 2018, 07:40 AM   #33
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SO THE FUCK WHAT
Looks like an illustration that slaves really were human, no different than the rest of us. You should understand this better than most, you're ready to give up freedom by accepting more and more restrictions on your life. Now as those restrictions are removed you feel exposed and uncomfortable, longing for a return to a restricted life. No different than some slaves who wouldn't leave their metaphorical cages when freed.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I believe that we should be able to teach the basic tenets of the Christian religion (as information, not proselytizing), just as we do Islam, Hindi, Judaism, etc. As we gain more and more immigrants from other cultures, Christianity is going to be as alien to them as those other religions have been to Americans for generations. Knowledge is a good thing IMO.

I do NOT believe that we need teach SCRIPTURE in order to teach basic religious tenets.
And that is why you are a cultist sodomite. Because teaching scripture would require you to repent. Your post should surprise no actual Christian.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:43 AM   #35
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In the Bible the word translated as slavery is also often translated as servant. My opinion slavery in ancient times was different and not as evil as what was practiced in America.
There were also bond servants, and indebted servants but don't try to explain to these unrepentant people they want nothing to do with actual Christianity. There are things in the old testament that Jesus later clarified, or did away with, some he didn't, but these are all they have to cling to because they would have to change their selfish sinful life to believe.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:46 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
And that is why you are a cultist sodomite. Because teaching scripture would require you to repent. Your post should surprise no actual Christian.
You, sir are a fundie menace, phoney OT christian. One of the many who don't follow the teachings or your supposed savior.

Hypocrite.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
... Islam....
This thread ain't about Islam so I'm not discussing it.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
The best way to prove evolution theory never happened is to answer Biblical skepticism from atheist. This proves atheists have no credibility.
ROFLMAO!
"evolution"?
You are desperate to derail this thread, aintcha ploughboy!


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
The entire U.S. Law was found on Judeo-Christian principles. It was not founded on atheism as Ben Franklin very clearly states. n his pamphlet entitled Information to Those Who Would Remove to America, written to Europeans who were considering the move to America or intending to send their young people to seek their fortune in this land of opportunity, Benjamin Franklin wrote:
No. This country was definitively NOT founded on Christianity.
Your quoted statement never even remotely makes that claim.

Our government has explicitly stated our country was not founded on Christianity.
'The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.'
Treaty of Tripoli
Ratified UNANIMOUSLY

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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
So here is absolute proof our laws were not founded on the moral relativism of atheism. Case closed.
I think you meant to say your mind was closed.
I never said anything about "founded on moral relativism of atheism". That's a b.s. new-age concoction by modern Christianity to ignore the reality of what's going on.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Absolutely! All our founding fathers agreed that Biblical morale was essential in establishing a civilized society.
You need to stop guzzling the kool-aid and look at the facts.
35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate | Addicting Info | The Knowledge You Crave
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
~Founding Father James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

“Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”
~Founding Father James Madison, letter, 1822

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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Don't ask me, ask Noah Webster who was our great American educator. The Bible was the source of all teachings in all academic classes which catapulted our nation to the world's #1 educated nation in the world. That all changed, of course, under the militant atheism of John Dewey and others after him who taught moral relativism which has resulted in the lesser educated generation we see today. So yeah, Noah Webster wins this debate with ease.
First off, you pretend to name-drop somebody from about two and a half centuries ago and pretend you automatically win the point?
ROFLMAO!!!

Secondly, you haven't a freakin' clue. I can destroy you with your own source!
Separation of church and state was necessary in the new utopia. Webster saw the two as different forms of government; one dealt with the temporal happiness of man, the other with his spiritual redemption. The messengers of salvation should not be allowed to sit in judgement of commercial and political affairs, nor should those involved in politics have any voice in church matters, let alone actively support one specific sect. The two different types of government could not be reconciled, and to attempt to do so, he believed, was to attempt "to mix oil with water, or to make the most discordant sounds in nature...harmonize." He feared their cooperation, for each made it's subjects in its own field "sufficient slavish." But of the two, the clergy were by far the more dangerous. They hid their lust for domination behind the guise of saintliness and had consistently deceived people in the past. the "ambassadors of Christ" had too often "joined the terrors of eternal damnation to the iron rod of civil magistrates in order to extend an unlimited authority over the persons, the purses, and the consciences of their devoted vassals" (The Long Journey of Noah Webster, p. 31).
Noah Webster and separation


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Here is the entire passage that atheists never want to quote.
Ephesians 6, New King James Version (NKJV)
I have to laugh when people try to pull what you just did.
THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
It tells slaves to be good slaves and masters to be good masters.
BUT IT STILL ENDORSES SLAVERY.

Slavery is an innate evil that anybody with a real moral compass should be able to recognize. A self-proclaimed absolute morality should condemn ANY form of slavery.

Such comments like yours above from some Christians only go to show how some people can't think for themselves and rely on their religion to tell them how to think...


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Many people became Christians, from slaves to Roman masters of slaves. All of them were instructed to serve the Lord which included slaves being obedient to their masters and masters treating their slaves fairly. Back then Rome was in power and there was no abolishing slavery without overthrowing Rome. Slavery was the practice of the entire ancient world. William Wilberforce is the man who's sermon's from the Bible abolished slavery in both Europe and the United States. Yes, Lincoln read the words of Wilberforce.
Quit obfuscating what's going on here.
THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
If slavery were simply happening all around the Christians and they refused to partake in it but could not stop everybody from doing it, there is moral integrity in that.
But the thing is that's not what happened and the THE BIBLE ENDORSED SLAVERY.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Here is a passage condemning slavery, as we were all bought for a price which is Christ' blood. There we are slaves to Christ and no one else. The following passage further discredits evolution theory as it says the opposite of what atheist claim the Bible teaches:
1 Corinthians 7:20-23, New King James Version (NKJV)
This is just pathetic on your part.
Commentaries on the subject clearly demonstrate the author was not referring to actual forced slavery, but rather the difference between calling Jesus your master as opposed to being a slave to earthly sinful desires.
1 Corinthians 7:23 Commentaries: You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
2 Corinthians 3:17, New King James Version (NKJV)
This is referencing spiritual liberty. The belief that having Jesus as your savior "liberates" you.
Not physical slavery.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Slavery was abolished by Christians.
Once again, THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
And slavers and slave-traders USED THE BIBLE TO DEFEND their actions.
Christian slavers and slave-traders FOUGHT AGAINST slavery's abolishment.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
What this passage is saying is that women are not to lead and become Pastors.
I get really sick of the subset of Christians who try to piss all over the truth and pretend it's rain.
The words are clear.
Bible endorsing misogyny:
1 Corinthians 14
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Ploughboy, you sacrifice your reputation and expose blatant dishonesty when you repeat such blatant lies.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
They have always been allowed to sing in church etc. In the Christian faith, men and women have different roles in life which makes family life better.
I don't care how modern Christianity has rejected certain bible passages out of convenience.
The truth is that MANY religions do that, including the one you are railing against in another thread.
This thread is about the bible.


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Ephesians 5:22-33, New King James Version (NKJV)
Out of curiosity, were you trying to prove the bible's misogyny by repeating bible passages that explicitly state women are supposed to be subjugated to men?


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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
This was the command for Israel only. Their enemies were wicked and God Himself ordered that they be either driven out and killed. This is how wars are fought back then. You will not find an order for the Jews to slaughter all unbelievers in the world.
This was war? So you're basically admitting that the bible's god's supposed "chosen people" were no better than anybody else...

Part of the problem with some Christians apologetics is that they fail to appreciate the reality of history and how it exposes the bible as being a book written by Israelite men, for Israelite men.
The old testament had a pattern. Israelites go to war.
Sometimes they would win. In those situations, they would sometimes exterminate the enemy.
Sometimes they would lose. In those situations they would be subjugated.

The New Testament starts at a stage where the Israelites had lost and were under the Roman thumb. SO OF COURSE they could not do further genocide because they simply did not have the power to...
If they had the power to stomp on Rome, they would have committed more genocide...

Last edited by foundit66; July 6th, 2018 at 09:26 AM.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:53 AM   #38
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When the Hebrews used to practice Jubilee , slaves were freed every seventh year.
The bible had two brands of slavery.
An "indentured servant" slavery for the Israelites. This was brought upon by debt.
And true slavery for other people who were not Israelites.

The non-Israelite slaves were NOT freed after six/seven years. :no
Israelite slaves were to be offered release after six to seven years of service, except when the male Israelite slave chose to remain with his wife; the male slave, the female slave and all children would consequently endure bond-slavery throughout their lives. [6][7][8] A foreign slave could be bequeathed to the owner's family,[9] and be made to serve for the life of the slave, except in the case of certain injuries.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery


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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
The MALE slaves were freed. If that slave was “given” a wife or children they were kept as slaves. The male could either go free or stay with his wife and children and remain a slave forever

EXODUS 21:2-6
21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Reposting as Nwolfe35 has provided the bible source.

Last edited by foundit66; July 6th, 2018 at 09:21 AM.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #39
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You, sir are a fundie menace, phoney OT christian. One of the many who don't follow the teachings or your supposed savior.

Hypocrite.
Well that is your opinion! I believe in righteous indignation see temple tables. I will call out fake Christians. Tristan is a sodomite reprobate who will suffer that is fact. I believe the Bible is the infallible inerrant word of God, you don't believe at all, walk away, just walk away.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 09:23 AM   #40
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Well that is your opinion! I believe in righteous indignation see temple tables. I will call out fake Christians. Tristan is a sodomite reprobate who will suffer that is fact. I believe the Bible is the infallible inerrant word of God, you don't believe at all, walk away, just walk away.
I would LOVE “to walk away” but religious zealots like you keep trying to legislate your interpretation of the Bible. If you and your ilk will get your nonsense religion out of OUR government (and keep it out) then I would be happy to walk away.
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