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Old July 6th, 2018, 09:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
Well that is your opinion! I believe in righteous indignation see temple tables. I will call out fake Christians. Tristan is a sodomite reprobate who will suffer that is fact. I believe the Bible is the infallible inerrant word of God, you don't believe at all, walk away, just walk away.
It’s not an opinion; it’s obvious, in all the poison you spew! You are a hypocrite.

You will ‘call out fake Christians’? Then take a long look in the mirror and shout away

You are an utter disgrace.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 09:32 AM   #42
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I would LOVE “to walk away” but religious zealots like you keep trying to legislate your interpretation of (the parts) of the Bible (you CHOOSE to BELIEVE in). If you and your ilk will get your nonsense religion out of OUR government (and keep it out) then I would be happy to walk away.
Just had to correct your statement there
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Old July 6th, 2018, 09:34 AM   #43
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No the bible is not compatible with US laws. The Jews had 613 laws and even the 10 commandments is not what they seem to be stated according to the OT.

Jews were demonized for the longest time in the US so no we were not found on Judeo-Christian beliefs, as there was no judeo till 1950 after Israel self-declared themselves a state. Even today the Hasidic and orthodox are allowed to perform sucking circumcision (grown man sucking on male infants penises to stop the bleeding, how archaic).

Yet the House of Congress has a relief of Moses right in the center , the only full face of the lawgivers (23) and they all face him, and there is no relief of Jesus.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 01:46 PM   #44
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No the bible is not compatible with US laws. The Jews had 613 laws and even the 10 commandments is not what they seem to be stated according to the OT.

Jews were demonized for the longest time in the US so no we were not found on Judeo-Christian beliefs, as there was no judeo till 1950 after Israel self-declared themselves a state. Even today the Hasidic and orthodox are allowed to perform sucking circumcision (grown man sucking on male infants penises to stop the bleeding, how archaic).

Yet the House of Congress has a relief of Moses right in the center , the only full face of the lawgivers (23) and they all face him, and there is no relief of Jesus.
Here's your problem: You do not understand the Bible at all. The entire Bible tells of one story, one account, one purpose, one truth, one God, and one religion. There are no two Bibles in one. Its all one Bible. Once you understand all this then you take into account the entire reveal message as one picture of law which our founders had in mind when they were working out the laws of this nation. God wrote the 10 Commandments with His own finger. The event on Mt.Sinai always represents the Divine Providence of law and order which even deists like Ben Franklin agreed with.

As for this sucking circumcision, I just read the Torah not long ago and don't remember any such passage containing any law which required a man to suck a boy's penis during circumcision. In fact, the law states that baby males should be circumcised on the 8th day which is actually very sensible.

You don't have to agree with it or get circumcised. But this view you have on the Jews does not come from the Torah which makes this view completely false. And if you think this came from the Talmud then quote chapter and verse. But before you do that, do you own the complete Talmud collection? Have you read the Talmud for yourself? If not, how can you know for sure that what you read on the Internet is true? In 95% of all cases I have investigated, these kind of allegations made that claim such and such a book contains this rotten awful deed do not pass the authentic test. The quotes either don't exist or they have been perverted by the fabricator. The other 5% involved something completely yanked out of context. This being said, I doubt you will find anything in the Talmud of this sucking circumcision.

So you quote your claims and I'll check for authenticity of the quote.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 01:54 PM   #45
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Hmmmm.....religion sure didn't seem to "teach morality" to the criminals in US prisons, nearly all of whom are religious, most of them "christians". Looks like the atheists are FAR more moral than any of the "religious" groups, doesn't it? And it certainly wasn't atheists burning people at the stake for "witchcraft" or murdering people in the "name of God".

RELIGION PRISON POP. GENERAL POP.
Protestant 28.7% 44.0%
Catholic 24.0 25.1
Muslim 8.4 0.6
Native American 3.1 0.1
Pagan 2.0 0.1
Jewish 1.7 1.2
Churches of Christ 1.5 0.8
Buddhist 1.0 0.5
Jehovah’s Witness 0.7 0.8
Seventh Day Adventist 0.3 0.4
Mormon 0.3 1.4
Eastern Orthodox 0.2 0.4
Apostolic 0.2 0.4
Hindu 0.1 0.3
Atheist 0.1 0.7
Pentecostal 0.1 2.4
Sikh <0.1 <0.1
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Old July 6th, 2018, 01:59 PM   #46
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As for this sucking circumcision, I just read the Torah not long ago and don't remember any such passage containing any law which required a man to suck a boy's penis during circumcision. In fact, the law states that baby males should be circumcised on the 8th day which is actually very sensible.
Why would circumcision be "sensible"? Are you saying God screwed up by giving boys foreskins? That would mean he's not infallible, huh? Well we already know that. From what "christians" (the kind with the little "c") tell us God hates gays. But there are so many gays in the world today! So either 1) God made a mistake, which you types claim he can't because he's perfect and omniscient...or 2) God is perfect and HE CREATED GAY PEOPLE ON PURPOSE. Heaven forfend that last be a possibility, huh? However since you claim God to be perfect and omniscient, then it follows if gay people are here that he INTENDED THEM TO BE HERE FOR A PURPOSE. Best to ignore the purpose and go with ignorant hate, huh?

Fake "christian" thinking is not logical at all, no commonsense required. You just believe what you are told without vetting what you've been told. The evangelical "christians" are getting played like morons, and the rest of the Christians have noticed.

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Old July 6th, 2018, 02:28 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Here's your problem: You do not understand the Bible at all. The entire Bible tells of one story, one account, one purpose, one truth, one God, and one religion. There are no two Bibles in one. Its all one Bible. Once you understand all this then you take into account the entire reveal message as one picture of law which our founders had in mind when they were working out the laws of this nation. God wrote the 10 Commandments with His own finger. The event on Mt.Sinai always represents the Divine Providence of law and order which even deists like Ben Franklin agreed with.

As for this sucking circumcision, I just read the Torah not long ago and don't remember any such passage containing any law which required a man to suck a boy's penis during circumcision. In fact, the law states that baby males should be circumcised on the 8th day which is actually very sensible.

You don't have to agree with it or get circumcised. But this view you have on the Jews does not come from the Torah which makes this view completely false. And if you think this came from the Talmud then quote chapter and verse. But before you do that, do you own the complete Talmud collection? Have you read the Talmud for yourself? If not, how can you know for sure that what you read on the Internet is true? In 95% of all cases I have investigated, these kind of allegations made that claim such and such a book contains this rotten awful deed do not pass the authentic test. The quotes either don't exist or they have been perverted by the fabricator. The other 5% involved something completely yanked out of context. This being said, I doubt you will find anything in the Talmud of this sucking circumcision.

So you quote your claims and I'll check for authenticity of the quote.
YOU do not understand the Bible if you think it is one seamless story.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 02:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
Why would circumcision be "sensible"?
You obviously have no real knowledge of the problems men can have as a result of being uncircumcised. I was not circumcised, well not until I was 25 that is. It was either that or let the conditions go until things got so bad amputation was the only thing left. After the circumcision, no more problems till 40 yrs later. All as a result of not having it done as an infant. I know you speak from a position of ignorance or you wouldn't have made such a stupid statement.

I forgotto mention that my dad was a Hospital Corpsman in a Navy Hospital on New Calenonia During WWII. He told me later that they were doing "emergency" circumcisions at the rate of 20+ per day due to infections contracted in the field. Their hospital got the casualties who coudn't be evaced to Hawaii or the States quick enough.

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Old July 6th, 2018, 02:45 PM   #49
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You obviously have no real knowledge of the problems men can have as a result of being uncircumcised. I was not circumcised, well not until I was 25 that is. It was either that or let the conditions go until things got so bad amputation was the only thing left. After the circumcision, no more problems till 40 yrs later. All as a result of not having it done as an infant. I know you speak from a position of ignorance or you wouldn't have made such a stupid statement.
Ah...so God screwed up, is what you are saying?

Btw..people who actually wash their dicks never develop those problems.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 05:03 PM   #50
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This thread ain't about Islam so I'm not discussing it.
Sounds reasonable to me but you fanatical atheists didn't mind attacking Christianity on the Islam discussion.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
ROFLMAO!
"evolution"?
You are desperate to derail this thread, aintcha ploughboy!
All it takes is for some undecided person to read how atheists twist and distort and deliberately lie about the Bible and the undecided person becomes a Christian. Nobody wants to follow a lie and many people are becoming Christians now through atheistic skepticism on the Bible, seeing how inaccurate atheists are. Says very little about evolution theory.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
No. This country was definitively NOT founded on Christianity.
Your quoted statement never even remotely makes that claim.

Our government has explicitly stated our country was not founded on Christianity.
'The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.'
Treaty of Tripoli
Ratified UNANIMOUSLY
The Treaty of Tripoli was not about America or American law. Jefferson lied to the muslims so a treaty could be made. He knew enough about Islam to never trust them and just give them a bone to chew on. To even think that the U.S. was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles is to forcefully admit your ignorance of early American history. The nation was not founded on atheism and Ben Franklin very clearly says. In his pamphlet entitled Information to Those Who Would Remove to America, written to Europeans who were considering the move to America or intending to send their young people to seek their fortune in this land of opportunity, Benjamin Franklin wrote:

"Hence bad examples to youth are more rare in America, which must be a comfortable consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced.
Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an atheist or an Infidel.
And the Divine Being seems to have manifested his approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness with which the different sects treat each other; by the remarkable prosperity with which he has been pleased to favor the whole country." (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.247)

So Europeans would read this pamphlet and leave Europe because they wanted to get away from atheists.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I think you meant to say your mind was closed.
I never said anything about "founded on moral relativism of atheism". That's a b.s. new-age concoction by modern Christianity to ignore the reality of what's going on.
You're trying to say there was no wisdom behind the law, on moral philosophy that influenced our founders. You want me to believe they were all empty headed and of no persuasion. There is always a wisdom behind laws. The Bible was the wisdom of our laws. Atheism was unknown in America then so it definitely wasn't atheist think that founded this country!


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You need to stop guzzling the kool-aid and look at the facts.
35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate | Addicting Info | The Knowledge You Crave
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
~Founding Father James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

“Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”
~Founding Father James Madison, letter, 1822
In 1778, James Madison stated:

Quote:
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God" (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.411).
Shortly after signing the Declaration of Independence, a committee was appointed to draft a seal for the newly united states which would express the spirit of the nation. Thomas Jefferson proposed:

Quote:
"The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night" (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.322).
Deist Thomas Jefferson, on June 17, 1804, in a letter to Henry Fry, wrote:

Quote:
"I consider the doctrines of Jesus as delivered by himself to contain the outlines of the most sublimest system of morality that has ever been taught but I hold in the most profound detestation and execration the corruptions of it which have been invented..." (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.326).
President Thomas Jefferson, a deist, on March 4, 1805, offered A National Prayer for Peace:

Quote:
"Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners.
Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues.
Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth.
In time of prosperity fill our our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen" (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, pp.327-32.
On November 4, 1820, deist Thomas Jefferson wrote to Jared Sparks,

Quote:
"I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to man..." (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.330).

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
First off, you pretend to name-drop somebody from about two and a half centuries ago and pretend you automatically win the point?
ROFLMAO!!!

Secondly, you haven't a freakin' clue. I can destroy you with your own source!
Separation of church and state was necessary in the new utopia. Webster saw the two as different forms of government; one dealt with the temporal happiness of man, the other with his spiritual redemption. The messengers of salvation should not be allowed to sit in judgement of commercial and political affairs, nor should those involved in politics have any voice in church matters, let alone actively support one specific sect. The two different types of government could not be reconciled, and to attempt to do so, he believed, was to attempt "to mix oil with water, or to make the most discordant sounds in nature...harmonize." He feared their cooperation, for each made it's subjects in its own field "sufficient slavish." But of the two, the clergy were by far the more dangerous. They hid their lust for domination behind the guise of saintliness and had consistently deceived people in the past. the "ambassadors of Christ" had too often "joined the terrors of eternal damnation to the iron rod of civil magistrates in order to extend an unlimited authority over the persons, the purses, and the consciences of their devoted vassals" (The Long Journey of Noah Webster, p. 31).
Noah Webster and separation
Noah Webster, the great American educator, stated concerning education:

Quote:
"Education is useless without the Bible"
Quote:
"The Bible was America's basic textbook in all fields."
Quote:
"God's Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct" (America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations, William J.Federer, p.676).
And there is plenty more quotes from Webster but those three should drop a big enough hint.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I have to laugh when people try to pull what you just did.
THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
It tells slaves to be good slaves and masters to be good masters.
BUT IT STILL ENDORSES SLAVERY.
You were well answered in post #15 of this topic. There is no "endorsement" of slavery. You are tying to force a meaning into the text that isn't there.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Slavery is an innate evil that anybody with a real moral compass should be able to recognize. A self-proclaimed absolute morality should condemn ANY form of slavery.
Well illiteracy is also an innate evil that you fail to recognize. Had you studied history you would have learned that it was William Wilberforce, who, though his sermons taken from the Bible, abolished slavery in both Europe and America. But you don't read that stuff because they don't have real history on atheist sites.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Such comments like yours above from some Christians only go to show how some people can't think for themselves and rely on their religion to tell them how to think...
Oh I think for myself just fine. You just like to belittle Christians who don't share in your moral relativism.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Quit obfuscating what's going on here.
THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
If slavery were simply happening all around the Christians and they refused to partake in it but could not stop everybody from doing it, there is moral integrity in that.
But the thing is that's not what happened and the THE BIBLE ENDORSED SLAVERY.
Your skepticism was answered in post #15 of this topic.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This is just pathetic on your part.
Commentaries on the subject clearly demonstrate the author was not referring to actual forced slavery, but rather the difference between calling Jesus your master as opposed to being a slave to earthly sinful desires.
1 Corinthians 7:23 Commentaries: You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
I never said anything to the contrary. The text is clear without any commentaries. But you answer your own skepticism by quoting You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. That does not look like an endorsement of slavery to me!


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This is referencing spiritual liberty. The belief that having Jesus as your savior "liberates" you.
Not physical slavery.
It says that where the spirit of the Lord is, there is also liberty. The first clause is spirit, the second clause, being the outcome of obedience to the Lord, leads to liberty in mind, spirit and flesh. We are not Christians in spirit only but also in the flesh as we live out our lives on earth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Once again, THE BIBLE ENDORSES SLAVERY.
And slavers and slave-traders USED THE BIBLE TO DEFEND their actions.
Christian slavers and slave-traders FOUGHT AGAINST slavery's abolishment.
It was the sermons of William Wilberforce that abolished slavery in both Europe and the United States. President Lincoln. a Christian, along with his Christian administration, sent an army of mostly all Christians to fight to abolish slavery and to save the Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I get really sick of the subset of Christians who try to piss all over the truth and pretend it's rain.
The words are clear.
Bible endorsing misogyny:
1 Corinthians 14
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Your skepticism was well answered on post #15 of this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Ploughboy, you sacrifice your reputation and expose blatant dishonesty when you repeat such blatant lies.
My reputation is very good and I am well known to never ever tell a lie among those who know me well. So your forceful assumptions are a mere attempt to save your lost arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I don't care how modern Christianity has rejected certain bible passages out of convenience.
The truth is that MANY religions do that, including the one you are railing against in another thread.
This thread is about the bible.
I never said anything about certain Bible passages being rejected in my speech. You have selective reading disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Out of curiosity, were you trying to prove the bible's misogyny by repeating bible passages that explicitly state women are supposed to be subjugated to men?
Your skepticism was answered on post #15 of this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This was war? So you're basically admitting that the bible's god's supposed "chosen people" were no better than anybody else...
God did not want his people to sit around all day playing video games and smoking pot. Had the Israelites lived like liberals today they would have ceased to be a people. God had much bigger plans than that. The Torah is also very clear that the Israelites were to fight only without the borders God allowed for them. That would be the small tiny little country of Israel which is the size of the State of New Hampshire. Doesn't sound like God wanted them to conquer the world. They fought for a small patch of land which everyone in the world right now seems to want to take away from the Jews. God has a way of exposing the foolishness of men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Part of the problem with some Christians apologetics is that they fail to appreciate the reality of history and how it exposes the bible as being a book written by Israelite men, for Israelite men.
The old testament had a pattern. Israelites go to war.
Sometimes they would win. In those situations, they would sometimes exterminate the enemy.
Sometimes they would lose. In those situations they would be subjugated.
You never read the Torah, did you? The Israelites are called a "stiff necked people" by God on more than one occasion because of their disobedience. Deut.28:15-68 contains a prophetic passage where God just comes out and lets the Jews know that there will come a time when they are cursed and scattered all over the earth for not obeying His Commands. Another passage i Lev.26:33-36 also reveals a prophecy which is clearly fulfilled.

As for women, Deborah (Judges chapt.4) became a Judge over all Israel. As for women speaking in the church, I'm Anglican and we hold to all the old customs hook, line and sinker. Women talk all the time. They just aren't allowed to read the lessons. But in other churches, women say anything they want whenever they want. But women are generally not cut out to be leaders as Hillary Clinton is a prime example of why people should be cautioned before choosing a woman as a leader. But, then again, Jesus spent lots of time with women and treated them all well. He is the example we follow the most which is why Christian women are not only treated better than all other women on earth, but also desired the most by men!! Even you atheists prefer a Christian woman over your own kind. Why is that?

Think..

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The New Testament starts at a stage where the Israelites had lost and were under the Roman thumb. SO OF COURSE they could not do further genocide because they simply did not have the power to...
If they had the power to stomp on Rome, they would have committed more genocide...
The Israelites never tried to conquer any nations! Read the Bible before joining a forum. God did not make supermen out of Israel, He made a covenant with Israel and part of that covenant was for them to obey it. They refused to obey the covenant so they were conquered over and over again until finally in A.D.70 they were completely destroyed. All this is mentioned first in the Torah. The Torah antedates the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. Its very solid prophecy.

Bible reading list for you:

The scattering of the Jews
Lev.4:26:33-35
Deut.28:15-68

The blessings and return of Israel
Deut.chapt.30

I have quoted only from the Torah to prove to you that everything that has happened to the Jews throughout history has been prophesied to happen right there from the very start. God knew they were a stiff necked people and would eventually push God beyond His tolerance and He was lash out and strike Israel through abandoning them over to their enemies. There is more Scripture that goes with this but I am sticking just in the Torah to prove to you that your position about the Jews is very wrong.
Nowhere in the Torah does it say God made the Jews supermen.
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