Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Talk > Americas


Thanks Tree33Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 11th, 2018, 04:10 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
tristanrobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 24,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
The USA is the modern world. European countries are backwards.
If you consider modern being 1% of the population having gold-plated toilets and millions of homeless shitting in the streets. Sure.
Thanks from noonereal
tristanrobin is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 04:37 AM   #22
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,340
Is England's native language German? is the native language of the West coast of the US Japanese eastern US German

THE US SAVED THE MODERN WORLD.

Remember if you have no borders you have no nation.

Ask these people what happens if you don't enforce Immigration laws

TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 04:38 AM   #23
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
If you consider modern being 1% of the population having gold-plated toilets and millions of homeless shitting in the streets. Sure.
yes and thanks to Trump there are 2,000,000 FEWER people that need welfare.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 04:43 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
tristanrobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 24,295
You mean thanks to the increase in the economy which began before he even took office - before he was even chosen by the Electoral College? That thanks?
tristanrobin is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:09 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
noonereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NYC
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
yes and thanks to Trump there are 2,000,000 FEWER people that need welfare.
You are a special case.
Thanks from RNG and Clara007
noonereal is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:18 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 60,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
There is poverty in America. And the poverty is worse every where socialism is strongest.
Mississippi?
Thanks from Clara007
imaginethat is online now  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:21 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
noonereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NYC
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Mississippi?
Alabama recently made the news in this regard.

3rd world poverty was found to be common by a world organization who researches such things
Thanks from Camelot
noonereal is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:29 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 60,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Is England's native language German? is the native language of the West coast of the US Japanese eastern US German

THE US SAVED THE MODERN WORLD.

Remember if you have no borders you have no nation.

Ask these people what happens if you don't enforce Immigration laws

Dude, that USA no longer exists. That USA didn't have political parties that couldn't work together.
imaginethat is online now  
Old July 11th, 2018, 06:07 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
tristanrobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 24,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Dude, that USA no longer exists. That USA didn't have political parties that couldn't work together.
LOL

far be it from me to defend tn from his blusterings

but, actually, they had quite a few squabbling "parties" - they were just known as tribes - and they were at war with each other all the time
tristanrobin is offline  
Old July 11th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Is England's native language German? is the native language of the West coast of the US Japanese eastern US German

THE US SAVED THE MODERN WORLD.

Remember if you have no borders you have no nation.

Ask these people what happens if you don't enforce Immigration laws

Well, for what it's worth, there were so many German immigrants moving to America...especially Pennsylvania, that many Americans, like Benjamin Franklin were afraid of a German takeover during the 18th century's version of the immigration/nativism debate:

The German Vote
The Legendary English-Only Vote of 1795

On January 13, 1795, Congress considered a proposal, not to give German any official status, but merely to print the federal laws in German as well as English. During the debate, a motion to adjourn failed by one vote. The final vote rejecting the translation of federal laws, which took place one month later, is not recorded.

The translation proposal itself originated as a petition to Congress on March 20, 1794, from a group of Germans living in Augusta, Virginia. A House committee responding to that petition recommended publishing sets of the federal statutes in English and distributing them to the states, together with the publication of three thousand sets of laws in German, “for the accommodation of such German citizens of the United States, as do not understand the English language” (American State Papers ser. 10, v. 1:114). According to the succinct report in the Aurora Gazette, “A great variety of plans were proposed, but none that seemed to meet the general sense of the House” (22 January, 1795, p. 3).

A vote to adjourn and sit again on the recommendation failed, 42 to 41, but there is no reason to believe from this close vote that more than token support existed for publishing the laws in German. The vote to adjourn seems to have been interpreted by the House as a vote of no confidence both in the committee's recommendation to translate the laws and in its recommendation on the distribution of the sets of laws once they were published in English. While there is no record of debate on the translation provision that day, if sentiment on the issue in Congress was anything like sentiment in Pennsylvania, translation was probably opposed by a substantial majority of the representatives.

On the other hand, the committee's plan for distributing the sets of laws did provoke some strong disagreement in the House. After objections to the latter were aired, a new committee was formed and asked to report again, and the House agreed to adjourn. It is from the close interim vote, not on an actual bill but on adjournment, that the socalled “German vote” legend has been built.

One month later, on February 16, 1795, the House once again considered the question of promulgating the laws, and among the issues, once again, was translating the federal statutes into German. This time some of the actual debate has been preserved. Rep. Thomas Hartley of Pennsylvania argued that “it was perhaps desirable that the Germans should learn English; but if it is our object to give present information, we should do it in the language understood. The Germans who are advanced in years cannot learn our language in a day. It would be generous in the Government to inform those persons. Many honest men, in the late disturbances [the Whiskey Rebellion], were led away by misrepresentation; ignorance of the laws laid them open to deception.”

Rep. William V. Murray of Maryland, who opposed translating the laws into German, countered “that it had never been the custom in England to translate the laws into Welsh or Gaelic, and yet the great bulk of the Welsh, and some hundred thousands of people in Scotland, did not understand a word of English” (Annals of Congress 4:1228-29). The House finally approved publication of current statutes, as well as future ones, in English only. The bill was agreed to by the Senate and signed by President Washington the following month............................................

Official English Then and Now

Opponents of moves to make English the official language of the United States frequently suspect that English-only advocates are motivated by more than political idealism. This suspicion is certainly justified by the historical record. For the past two centuries, proponents of official-English have sounded two separate themes, one rational and patriotic, the other emotional and racist. The Enlightenment belief that language and nation are inextricably intertwined, coupled with the chauvinist notion that English is a language particularly suited to democratically constituted societies, are convincing to many Americans who find discrimination on non-linguistic grounds thoroughly reprehensible (see Baron, 1990). More prominent though, throughout American history, have been the nativist attacks on minority languages and their speakers: Native Americans, Asians, the French, Germans, Jews and Hispanics, to name only the most frequently-targeted groups.

The English-only nativists who attacked the Germans used arguments similar to those heard nowadays against newer immigrants. Benjamin Franklin considered the Pennsylvania Germans to be a “swarthy” racial group distinct from the English majority in the colony. In 1751 he complained, “Why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion?” (The papers of Benjamin Franklin. Ed. Leonard W. Labaree. New Haven: Yale Univ. Press, 1959. vol 4:234).

The Germans were accused by other eighteenth-century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. They were even blamed for the severe Pennsylvania winters (Feer 1952, 403; Mittelberger 1898, 104). Most irritating to Pennsylvania's English-firsters in the latter 1700s was German language loyalty, although it was clear that, despite community efforts to preserve their language, Germans were adopting English and abandoning German at a rate that should have impressed the rest of the English-speaking population.


Any of this sound familiar?
Anti-German sentiment spread along with German immigration, and the nation as a whole resisted both the German bilingual schools that were established in parts of the Midwest in the 19th century and the common practice of publishing legal notices in German-American newspapers. On a number of occasions the U.S. Congress again rejected motions to print laws or other documents in German as well as English. The motions were often treated jocularly and were shouted down amidst racist cries of, “What! In the Cherokee? [and in] the Old Congo language!” (Congressional Globe 1844, 7).

Antagonism toward Germans and their language resurfaced in the Midwest in the late 1880s and early 1890s, and again across the country during and after World War I. Between 1917 and 1922 most of the states dropped German from their school curricula. Nebraska's open meeting law of 1919 forbade the use of foreign languages in public, and in 1918 Governor Harding of Iowa proclaimed that “English should and must be the only medium of instruction in public, private, denominational and other similar schools. Conversation in public places, on trains, and over the telephone should be in the English language. Let those who cannot speak or understand the English language conduct their religious worship in their home” (New York Times, 18 June 1918, p. 12). Such attitudes had a chilling effect on language use. As many as eighteen thousand people were charged in the Midwest during and immediately following World War I with violating the English-only statutes (Crawford 1989, 23.)

The anti-German school laws were declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1923. In Meyer v. Nebraska, the court ruled that “the protection of the Constitution extends to all,—to those who speak other languages as well as to those born with English on the tongue” (262 U.S. 390). Similar anti-Japanese laws were invalidated by the court in Farrington v. Tokushige in 1927 (273 U.S. 284). And the high court reaffirmed the states' responsibility to educate non-English speakers effectively in Lau v. Nichols (1974) (414 U.S. Reports 563), though the court did not specify how this was to be accomplished.

Nonetheless, Americans remain troubled by foreign languages and their speakers. Despite the fact that the 1980 U.S. Census showed that more than 97 percent of the people in the nation speak English (Waggoner 1988, 69), nativist fears for the safety of English seem stronger than ever. The English Language Amendment (ELA) has been before the Congress since 1981. California passed an official-English law in 1986, a year in which a total of thirty-seven states considered official language measures. In 1989 Arizona, Colorado and Florida passed English-only laws, and votes on the issue are likely in Massachusetts, Ohio and Pennsylvania in the near future. Today's attempts to suppress the use of Asian languages and Spanish in the United States are manifest in state official-language referenda; in local ordinances mandating the use of the roman alphabet on signboards or forbidding the purchase of non-English books by public libraries; and in regulations which require employees to use English on the job and during breaks, or which force school children to use English in schoolbuses as well as classrooms.

Official-English is an emotional issue for many people, involving questions of patriotism as well as racism, language loyalty as well as assimilation. Supporters and opponents of the ELA almost came to blows during a discussion of the subject on the “Donahue” show in Miami a few years ago. Adding to the complexity of the issue is the problem that language legislation, at least in the United States, is difficult if not impossible to enforce. In 1906, Pres. Theodore Roosevelt ordered the federal government to adopt simplified spelling in its official publications. This move generated so much resistance that Roosevelt softly withdrew his order (see Baron, 1982). The New Mexico constitution, establishing English as the new state's official language, was ratified by means of bilingual ballots. A 1923 Illinois law making American, rather than English, the official language of that state was quietly amended in 1969 because Illinois residents continued to speak and teach English in defiance or ignorance of the statute. The English Language Amendment, if it is passed, may also prove to be more of a symbol than an enforceable statute, though many people fear that it could become a dangerous tool for linguistic and cultural repression. In any case, though, the ELA seems one final, and to some observers, paranoid, attempt to make up for the perceived humiliation of 1795, when English reportedly came within a hair's-breadth of losing out as the official language of the United States in a vote which never really took place.


The Legendary English-Only Vote of 1795
right to left is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Talk > Americas

Tags
america, didn’t, modern, part, world



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Athenian Democracy Work in the Modern World? dusara217 Opinion Polls 21 September 22nd, 2016 07:04 AM
Is America Promoting Modern Slavery? teethandclaws Business & Industries 19 March 14th, 2007 08:12 AM
The Sad State of Modern America... tadpole256 Warfare 5 September 16th, 2005 05:41 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.