Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Philosophy and Religion > Religion > Atheism


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 16th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: kansas
Posts: 362
What About the Atheists?



When Christopher Hitchens observes that, “Religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children,” he is both right and wrong.



Hitchens is right because humankind is sinful and selfish. Indeed, I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who said that the one Christian doctrine that was demonstrably provable, even to casual observers, was the sinfulness and depravity of man. Thus, human expressions of the religious impulse will inevitably produce some religious practices and beliefs that would fit Hitchens’ rather grim description.



Human history is replete with such flawed expressions of religious faith.




............ however



This would be true of all secular philosophies and ideologies as well. Three of the most heinous and barbaric ideologies, which produced the greatest cruelties and violations of humanity in the 20th century, were fascism, Nazism and communism — all secular.



Hitchens is wrong in that he condemns all religious expression to the category of such violent and negative expressions. Many of the noblest expressions of humanity throughout the centuries have been performed in the name of religion.



One thinks of William Wilberforce and his long campaign to end the slave trade in the British Empire. Both the British and American abolitionist movements were founded, nurtured, financed and led to victory against the horrific evil of slavery by people who were most often inspired and motivated by deep religious conviction.



The great social reform movements of the last half of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century (child labor reform, etc.) were often led by people of deep religious faith, Protestant and Catholic.



And of course, in the lifetime of many of us who were born in the last half of the 20th century, the most successful and greatest reform movement was the civil rights revolution, led by a Baptist minister, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who often said that the movement and the faith that inspired it could not be separated . . As many will remember, the civil rights revolution was supported by and led to victory in large part because of the leadership of clergy, black and white.



Lastly, one is led to ask Mr. Hitchens some questions. Where are the great atheist-sponsored charitable and reform movements? Where are the atheist children homes and orphanages? (
no.. government programs do not count ) Where are the atheist leaders who are taking vows of poverty and giving themselves in sacrificial service to others?



As Arthur C. Brooks, professor at Syracuse University, points out in his recent book, Who Really Cares? (2006): Religious people are far more generous with their own time and money than secularists. Brooks concludes, “Religious folks are by far the most charitable people in America today.”



. . . . .
Dr Richard Land = http://www.drrichardland.com/library
dadman is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
I agree Atheists have no morals
liberalcanuck is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Nwolfe35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 16,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadman View Post
What About the Atheists?



When Christopher Hitchens observes that, “Religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children,” he is both right and wrong.



Hitchens is right because humankind is sinful and selfish. Indeed, I believe it was G.K. Chesterton who said that the one Christian doctrine that was demonstrably provable, even to casual observers, was the sinfulness and depravity of man. Thus, human expressions of the religious impulse will inevitably produce some religious practices and beliefs that would fit Hitchens’ rather grim description.



Human history is replete with such flawed expressions of religious faith.




............ however



This would be true of all secular philosophies and ideologies as well. Three of the most heinous and barbaric ideologies, which produced the greatest cruelties and violations of humanity in the 20th century, were fascism, Nazism and communism — all secular.



Hitchens is wrong in that he condemns all religious expression to the category of such violent and negative expressions. Many of the noblest expressions of humanity throughout the centuries have been performed in the name of religion.



One thinks of William Wilberforce and his long campaign to end the slave trade in the British Empire. Both the British and American abolitionist movements were founded, nurtured, financed and led to victory against the horrific evil of slavery by people who were most often inspired and motivated by deep religious conviction.



The great social reform movements of the last half of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century (child labor reform, etc.) were often led by people of deep religious faith, Protestant and Catholic.



And of course, in the lifetime of many of us who were born in the last half of the 20th century, the most successful and greatest reform movement was the civil rights revolution, led by a Baptist minister, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who often said that the movement and the faith that inspired it could not be separated . . As many will remember, the civil rights revolution was supported by and led to victory in large part because of the leadership of clergy, black and white.



Lastly, one is led to ask Mr. Hitchens some questions. Where are the great atheist-sponsored charitable and reform movements? Where are the atheist children homes and orphanages? (
no.. government programs do not count ) Where are the atheist leaders who are taking vows of poverty and giving themselves in sacrificial service to others?



As Arthur C. Brooks, professor at Syracuse University, points out in his recent book, Who Really Cares? (2006): Religious people are far more generous with their own time and money than secularists. Brooks concludes, “Religious folks are by far the most charitable people in America today.”



. . . . .
Dr Richard Land = http://www.drrichardland.com/library


As many people JUSTIFIED slavery by using religion as those who opposed it.



As far as what great reform movements did secularism start?



You're living in it.



The United States of America, contrary to what right wing religious people would claim, was founded on The Enlightenment. A philosophy that says knowledge is gained through reason.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
Nwolfe35 is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 08:37 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
i am going to post a list of evil things that people with red hair have done, and list of fantastic things that people with brown hair have done. then i will conclude that ALL people with red hair are intrinsically less moral than ALL people with brown hair.
hot dragon is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #5
Truth Troll
 
Nienna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Viking World
Posts: 3,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberalcanuck View Post
I agree Atheists have no morals


Me too.
Nienna is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #6
Truth Troll
 
Nienna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Viking World
Posts: 3,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
i am going to post a list of evil things that people with red hair have done, and list of fantastic things that people with brown hair have done. then i will conclude that ALL people with red hair are intrinsically less moral than ALL people with brown hair.


I never took you for a racist. But then again I never took you for a hamster either. I guess I was wrong, it is amazing what you can learn here



Next thing you know you will have atheist compare themselves to monkeys, call themselves rabbit and wolf claiming there is no proof of us being anything other than animals....oh wait



Must be an atheist thing. Please God give me red hair, just don't make me an atheist
Nienna is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
On the contrary atheists may not be any more moral than religious people, but we are still moral and much less a-moral. true there are a lot of religious charities but there are also a lot of non religious charities. Further more the vast majority of wars were started because of religion. May I point out that 9-11 was a religious act, so were the crusades. Slavery was abolished based on moral values not religious values, there is a difference. Also you make a common logical fallacy by claiming that all charities founded by religious people were founded because they were religious. Many charities are done by religious people but are not done for a religious purpose. Again there is a very important difference. You also seem to forget an important point. The vast majority of scientific advancements occurred because of science not religion. How many discoveries were made because of religion? Think about it, the basis of human advancement even human evolution have occurred, not because of religion, but because science. Atheists are no less moral than any religion.

P.S. Communism has not led to the loss of a single human life. It was the people who led the communist countries that inflicted these cruelties. Communism is an economic theory just like capitalism. None of those "ideologies" you mentioned are secular. In fact Hitler was religious. So don't you dare try to blame the holocaust on atheists.
Contemptible is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
locke23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberalcanuck View Post
I agree Atheists have no morals
I have a ton of morals.
locke23 is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nienna View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon' timestamp='1353130637' post='438761

i am going to post a list of evil things that people with red hair have done, and list of fantastic things that people with brown hair have done. then i will conclude that ALL people with red hair are intrinsically less moral than ALL people with brown hair.


I never took you for a racist. But then again I never took you for a hamster either. I guess I was wrong, it is amazing what you can learn here



Next thing you know you will have atheist compare themselves to monkeys, call themselves rabbit and wolf claiming there is no proof of us being anything other than animals....oh wait



Must be an atheist thing. Please God give me red hair, just don't make me an atheist


that was mostly quite amusing, except for the racist bit. my post was to expose the stupidity of cherry picking a few representatives of a group and extrapolating that to the entire group. i had to single out something, red hair seemed like something harmless.



regarding the hamster thing, are you claiming you are not a mammal?
hot dragon is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberalcanuck View Post
I agree Atheists have no morals
the sarcasm in this post isnt very obvious. you need to make it clearer that this isnt actually your opinion, some people might misunderstand it as genuine.
hot dragon is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Philosophy and Religion > Religion > Atheism

Tags
atheists



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Atheists Are dusty Atheism 341 November 26th, 2012 01:43 PM
Atheists Don't Have No Songs Bookworm Atheism 1 December 27th, 2011 05:51 PM
Atheists in Foxholes tadpole256 Religion 0 August 5th, 2010 01:50 PM
Atheists MUST Leave tadpole256 Religion 19 September 12th, 2009 12:49 PM
God Prefers Atheists tadpole256 Religion 2 November 11th, 2008 02:39 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.