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Old October 7th, 2016, 08:55 PM   #81
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4th amendment is no longer applicable at all
6th is null and void if you mention PATRIOT ACT
8th is null and void if you are considered a material witness. You are then detained without representation, a trial or allowed any contact at all, against your will
1st is null and void due to the PATRIOT ACT allowing the government to spy on religious services.

How long of a list would you like?
The 4th amendment is still applicable, come on. Police need a warrant for search and seizure in all cases except when it comes down right from the top, and even then in most cases the legality of it is severely vetted before and after the action.

The Patriot Act was deemed legal and constitutional, that is why it was allowed to exist in the first place. And the government does not simply abuse this power constantly and for no reason (it would be a waste of the limited resources they have available): I remember listening to a former intelligence officer of the US gov on CNN explain how they didn't have the man power or technology to effectively spy on and target a large group of people, and so they only ever focused many resources on those who were deemed clearly credible threats. As for cruel and unusual punishment, this was indeed violated, but not on American citizens (except in rare cases of individuals acting secretly and on their own authority). And even this was discovered and had its ass handed to it, making it irrelevant for a discussion about today's America.

Furthermore, the government could spy on religious services but had no authority to stop them from expressing their beliefs.

Lastly, concerning the 8th amendment and material witnesses, this issue is currently under judicial review. Wouldn't the gov simply ignore it if they didn't believe in making sure what they do is constitutional?

Look, you can even argue that never in American history, or in any country's history, has a constitution been perfectly followed. No system is perfect, no administration is perfect, and no society is perfect.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 08:57 PM   #82
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The 4th amendment is still applicable, come on. Police need a warrant for search and seizure in all cases except when it comes down right from the top, and even then in most cases the legality of it is severely vetted before and after the action.

The Patriot Act was deemed legal and constitutional, that is why it was allowed to exist in the first place. And the government does not simply abuse this power constantly and for no reason (it would be a waste of the limited resources they have available): I remember listening to a former intelligence officer of the US gov on CNN explain how they didn't have the man power or technology to effectively spy on and target a large group of people, and so they only ever focused many resources on those who were deemed clearly credible threats. As for cruel and unusual punishment, this was indeed violated, but not on American citizens (except in rare cases of individuals acting secretly and on their own authority). And even this was discovered and had its ass handed to it, making it irrelevant for a discussion about today's America.

Furthermore, the government could spy on religious services but had no authority to stop them from expressing their beliefs.

Lastly, concerning the 8th amendment and material witnesses, this issue is currently under judicial review. Wouldn't the gov simply ignore it if they didn't believe in making sure what they do is constitutional?

Look, you can even argue that never in American history, or in any country's history, has a constitution been perfectly followed. No system is perfect, no administration is perfect, and no society is perfect.
I could do my usual dissection point by point. Its late, I would rather watch a movie. But, your last paragraph was a excuse for why the government is trampling individual rights at a record pace. That will suffice for now.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 09:00 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by locke23 View Post
The 4th amendment is still applicable, come on. Police need a warrant for search and seizure in all cases except when it comes down right from the top, and even then in most cases the legality of it is severely vetted before and after the action.

The Patriot Act was deemed legal and constitutional, that is why it was allowed to exist in the first place. And the government does not simply abuse this power constantly and for no reason (it would be a waste of the limited resources they have available): I remember listening to a former intelligence officer of the US gov on CNN explain how they didn't have the man power or technology to effectively spy on and target a large group of people, and so they only ever focused many resources on those who were deemed clearly credible threats. As for cruel and unusual punishment, this was indeed violated, but not on American citizens (except in rare cases of individuals acting secretly and on their own authority). And even this was discovered and had its ass handed to it, making it irrelevant for a discussion about today's America.

Furthermore, the government could spy on religious services but had no authority to stop them from expressing their beliefs.

Lastly, concerning the 8th amendment and material witnesses, this issue is currently under judicial review. Wouldn't the gov simply ignore it if they didn't believe in making sure what they do is constitutional?

Look, you can even argue that never in American history, or in any country's history, has a constitution been perfectly followed. No system is perfect, no administration is perfect, and no society is perfect.
Obama's transgendered bathroom, locker room, and shower order flushed the Fourth Amendment down the toilet.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 09:38 PM   #84
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Obama's transgendered bathroom, locker room, and shower order flushed the Fourth Amendment down the toilet.
I'm pretty sure it falls under protecting transgender rights. So, like I said, if anything, the government has given more rights.
Thanks from Twisted Sister
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Old October 7th, 2016, 09:49 PM   #85
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I'm pretty sure it falls under protecting transgender rights. So, like I said, if anything, the government has given more rights.
Taking away the inalienable right of privacy to create a statutory right of allowing men to shower with girls is not giving more rights.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 09:51 PM   #86
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Taking away the inalienable right of privacy to create a statutory right of allowing men to shower with girls is not giving more rights.
You know where I stand on this issue.

Besides, this is not the thread for this topic.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 10:25 PM   #87
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I'm pretty sure it falls under protecting transgender rights. So, like I said, if anything, the government has given more rights.
Transgenders are covered under the equal protection clause. Using that premise then NAMBA and bestiality should also be protected but where does the madness end?
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Old October 7th, 2016, 10:57 PM   #88
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Transgenders are covered under the equal protection clause. Using that premise then NAMBA and bestiality should also be protected but where does the madness end?
There is no comparing the LGBT community to bestiality. That is both illogical and extremely disrespectful.

Again, I'll say that this is not the thread for this discussion.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 03:31 AM   #89
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I think my friends from West Point would disagree with you on that one.

You have friends? The US truly is a weird country!

Last edited by iolo; October 8th, 2016 at 04:00 AM.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 03:55 AM   #90
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You have friends? The US trulyt is a weird country!
I'm from Canada, but I have friends from West Point who are on an exchange program with RMC.
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