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Old March 17th, 2017, 09:20 AM   #11
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Licensing: where the state steals your right to work then sells it back to you.
Yeah, the STATE, not the Federal Government in most cases.

Right to work as what, a barber or a doctor?
Do I WANT my oncologist to have to PROVE to a government agency and/or professional association that she has a certain level of training and experience?
You God-damn right I do. My barber, maybe not so much.

Could you not try using what little common sense God gave you once in awhile?
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Old March 17th, 2017, 09:26 AM   #12
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Licensing: where the state steals your right to work then sells it back to you.
You should have come up to Vancouver for your dental work the past couple of years. This dentist was working really cheap. Only he wasn't a dentist, he had a bunch of fake certificates.

And he was screwing people up, big-time. Doing permanent damage.

Me, I'd just as soon only have people who pass unbiased requirements poke sharp things into me.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #13
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You should have come up to Vancouver for your dental work the past couple of years. This dentist was working really cheap. Only he wasn't a dentist, he had a bunch of fake certificates.

And he was screwing people up, big-time. Doing permanent damage.

Me, I'd just as soon only have people who pass unbiased requirements poke sharp things into me.
In the states, licensing is done at both the occupational ( Trades ), and professional ( Doctors, Lawyers )

In my state we have DPOR. The Department of Occupational and Professional licensing.

In the case of occupational trades, electricians, plumbers, HVAC mechanics, and gas fitters are required to have a journeyman trades license, to perform work outside of their own homes, that require local or state permits to be obtained to perform work on single family, multi family, and commercial buildings, as the work in those trades can result in the loss of life, or serious property damage.

A masters license is required for a single tradesmen to be able to obtain a permit on behalf of a company or property owner, and a contractors license in that trade, is required to be able to obtain permits as a legally licensed and insured business owner within the state.

It requires a minimum of 10,000 hours of on the job training, and completion of a 4 year apprenticeship course to be eligible to sit for the journeymans exam, which is a 3 hour exam, that tests both national code, and trades knowledge in that specific skill.

It's not easy, and it shouldn't be. If you manage to pass the exam, you are issued a state journeymans license, which must be renewed every 24 months, and successful completion of a continuing education course in that field is required to be able to renew the license.

Now multiply that times 50 states, each with their own set of regulations.

A licensed master electrician with 30 plus years in the trade, should not have to worry about regulatory requirements every time is crosses a state line to do electrical work. The National Electric Code is uniform throughout all 50 states, and the exams in all 50 states are based on the same code requirements.

120 volts AC works the same at your house, as it does at mine. Ohms law is the same anywhere in the universe.

As in any trade or profession, some are more skilled than others, and some are more knowledgeable than others, and some are totally incompetent.

But if you are going to have a structure that requires licensing in any skill, it should be uniform, and recognized in every state or province, with one set of rules, and training guidelines for everyone, and not a bureaucracy of dunces looking to bilk you for fees to line their coffers, not because they are concerned with your ability to perform your job.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #14
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Something that the odd person will be stung with here, and I would guess it would be the same in the US, is if you get work done which isn't up to code and have a fire or other insurance claim, if the investigators find that your whatever wasn't built to code your insurance is invalid.

And that is one of the big protections a trade licensing system gives.

There have been cases where the agency in charge of issuing the "tickets" as we call them in the vernacular is corrupt. But that is something that has to be monitored in virtually all cases.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
You should have come up to Vancouver for your dental work the past couple of years. This dentist was working really cheap. Only he wasn't a dentist, he had a bunch of fake certificates.

And he was screwing people up, big-time. Doing permanent damage.

Me, I'd just as soon only have people who pass unbiased requirements poke sharp things into me.
Are you saying that Vancouver does not have licensing requirements for dentists, or that Vancouver does have licensing requirements and that had no impact on this guy faking his credentials?
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:54 PM   #16
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Are you saying that Vancouver does not have licensing requirements for dentists, or that Vancouver does have licensing requirements and that had no impact on this guy faking his credentials?
As soon as one patient went to another dentist who saw what he had done, he was reported to the dentist's association who filed a criminal complaint and the guy is in the bighouse now. This is one of only two examples of a medical professional pulling this kind of a scam I know about.

For the medical professions, licensing is both federal and provincial.

Trade certification is a provincial matter.

Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves a naturopath and a few other things like reflexology.

It always strikes me as ridiculous that you need to take a course and pass tests to become a barber or hair dresser but these pseudo-medical pursuits don't require any certification.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #17
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As soon as one patient went to another dentist who saw what he had done, he was reported to the dentist's association who filed a criminal complaint and the guy is in the bighouse now. This is one of only two examples of a medical professional pulling this kind of a scam I know about.

For the medical professions, licensing is both federal and provincial.

Trade certification is a provincial matter.

Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves a naturopath and a few other things like reflexology.

It always strikes me as ridiculous that you need to take a course and pass tests to become a barber or hair dresser but these pseudo-medical pursuits don't require any certification.
We are probably on the same page regarding licensing. Licenses that do not affect the health, safety, or finances of citizens of states such as hair weavers (state requires full blown cosmetology school and license, horse massages (state require a horse massager to be a veterinarian),are stealing someone's right to work and then selling it back to them.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #18
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I know for a fact that Georgia and Ohio are Right to Work states. Indiana was not a right to work state but that may have changed. When I did a project for Delco Battery in Indiana in '79 the only way to satisfy the Union was cover up our work with canvass walls because we were non-union.

edit: did I heckle the union workers behind the canvass walls, sadly yes

Last edited by Twisted Sister; March 17th, 2017 at 03:28 PM.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #19
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... If Trump wants to put his money where his mouth is, he should sign an executive order that requires the Dept. of Labor to enforce one standard for all 50 states ...

No authority for that.


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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #20
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We are probably on the same page regarding licensing. Licenses that do not affect the health, safety, or finances of citizens of states such as hair weavers (state requires full blown cosmetology school and license, horse massages (state require a horse massager to be a veterinarian),are stealing someone's right to work and then selling it back to them.
So again you are saying the concept is good but the execution is lacking. Elect better or more honest politicians.

Don't I wish it was that easy.

In the case of hairdressers, there was a time that they used some dangerous chemicals and that was the reason that licensing was required, or so I have been told by people going through the course. But now it is just an antiquated remnant that either the lawmakers are too lazy to suspend or are being bought out by the people who run those courses.
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