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Old April 14th, 2017, 09:57 AM   #51
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It's not the knowledge itself that gets us up and running. It is our ability to store knowledge and then recall knowledge, which only happens with a functioning brain.
In order to get "up and running" (i.e. in order to get to the point that you know how to take care of yourself) initially requires knowledge you don't have, and which is essential as to whether or not you die. This is a clear instance where having a brain is of lesser importance to your survival than the second-hand knowledge to raise you.

I have cited other examples where having a functioning brain is clearly of lesser importance to survival than knowledge, i.e. people dying because they did not know how to get to air/water/food, or that they were making a fatal mistake.

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You haven't countered my book illustration. If a book is written in a foreign language, and you can't read that language, then it doesn't matter at all how much knowledge is in the book. You can't use it unless you can process it, can you? That processing happens in the brain.
In this illustration, in order to process the knowledge the book contains, requires that you have to learn how to read it. Learning how to read it requires second-hand knowledge.

A functioning brain, capable of processing information, requires oxygen, water, and food, and all those things require second and first-hand knowledge.

If we say the brain and its capability to process information is more important than the knowledge it might process, we might as well say that a sperm and an egg are more important than the brain, because without them we wouldn't have one. From there we can now say that fucking and artificial insemination are more important than knowledge because without them we wouldn't have a sperm entering an egg, and an eventual brain.

You're saying the vehicle is more important than the ride. You're saying the parameters for the field are more important than the game played upon it. You're saying that just having a brain is more important than the effect knowledge has on it.

Are there times when the vehicle really is more important than the ride? Of course, but in day to day life and in a lifetime of experience, how often is the vehicle more important than the ride?

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Even in this thread, I'm going to eventually give up on you if you just keep repeating yourself over and over again, making claims that you aren't supporting by anything other than repetition. Telling me that you "deserve" a reply, as if I am somehow beholden to you, is the surest way to not ever get a reply.
On public forums, if you engage in debate--and especially if you engage while implying your intelligence and knowledge are superior--you don't cut out, and remark on a different thread to the same person, that they lack the ability to comprehend. That's rude.

You muddled the question of publicly-funded elections by confusing public education and public campaigning.

You muddled the question here by saying the car is more important than where it's headed.

Last edited by Alipes; April 14th, 2017 at 10:01 AM.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #52
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It is our ability to store knowledge and then recall knowledge, which only happens with a functioning brain.
If you asked fifty people at a cocktail party what was more important: a brain, or knowing how to use it, there would be you and a handful of others who would say the brain. 40+ everyone else would say that knowing how to use a brain is more important than having one.

Last edited by Alipes; April 14th, 2017 at 10:47 AM. Reason: removed negativity
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Old April 14th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #53
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If you asked fifty people at a cocktail party what was more important: a brain, or knowing how to use it, there would be you and a handful of others who would say the brain. 40+ everyone else would say that knowing how to use a brain is more important than having one.
If you tried asking the question without having a functioning brain that relayed nerve signals to your mouth and vocal cords, then you'd just be standing there looking like an idiot.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #54
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If you tried asking the question without having a functioning brain that relayed nerve signals to your mouth and vocal cords, then you'd just be standing there looking like an idiot.
But we're not talking about the world where you don't have a functioning brain, we're talking about the one where everyone does, including you.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 04:20 PM   #55
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What is the most important thing to every living human being?

Back to the original question. Wow! That is a difficult question even to decode. I suppose if you were in Antarctica the most important thing might be a warm parka. If you were stranded on a raft in the ocean, it might be fresh water... or a compass and a paddle... or knowledge of ocean currents. The question begins with a clear understanding of what is meant by "every living human being." Let's start with that.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #56
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What is the most important thing to every living human being?

Back to the original question. Wow! That is a difficult question even to decode. I suppose if you were in Antarctica the most important thing might be a warm parka. If you were stranded on a raft in the ocean, it might be fresh water... or a compass and a paddle... or knowledge of ocean currents. The question begins with a clear understanding of what is meant by "every living human being." Let's start with that.
Hi Asimov, thanks for joining in. Perhaps you are right, perhaps I ought to have been more specific: "every living human being" is meant to mean everyone who has a functioning brain, and who is still alive.

If you are in Antartica, you knew before you got there that warm clothes were essential. And if somehow you didn't, and now you were set to freeze to death, then it wasn't a lack of brain function that killed, but a lack of knowledge regarding what's required to survive in such an environment.

If stranded on a raft, a brain is not much help if you don't know how to survive while stranded on a raft.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #57
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Hi Asimov, thanks for joining in. Perhaps you are right, perhaps I ought to have been more specific: "every living human being" is meant to mean everyone who has a functioning brain, and who is still alive.

If you are in Antartica, you knew before you got there that warm clothes were essential. And if somehow you didn't, and now you were set to freeze to death, then it wasn't a lack of brain function that killed, but a lack of knowledge regarding what's required to survive in such an environment.

If stranded on a raft, a brain is not much help if you don't know how to survive while stranded on a raft.
Wait, you don't need to argue the brain function argument with Asimov. That's our mental playground.

In regards to the definition of "every living human being," are you making "human" out to be a significant part of the original question? Your previous answer of "knowledge" is something that all living beings need, not just humans. Even animals need the knowledge of where to find food and water, and how to escape dangers of the environment. Humans, however, have something that animals don't have, and that is a brain capable of processing written and spoken language. Written knowledge is out there, just waiting to be used by animals, but animals can't use it. They don't have brains capable of processing it. That is why a HUMAN brain is of primary importance to every living HUMAN being.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #58
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If we're talking physical needs, then we have to start with a supply of oxygen. Life expectancy without that is about 2-3 minutes, regardless of one's brain capacity. But that's obvious.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #59
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More proof knowledge is supreme--Alzheimers folks, if they live long enough, die because they forget how to swallow: Do Alzheimer's Patients Forget How To Eat? - Alzheimer's Disease Center - EverydayHealth.com

Forgetting is a loss of knowledge. Knowledge, to human beings, if they are to live, is supreme.
Actually, forgetting is a loss of brain function rather than a loss of the knowledge. The information is still encoded in the brain, but the brain is no longer able to access it.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:42 PM   #60
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... are you making "human" out to be a significant part of the original question? Your previous answer of "knowledge" is something that all living beings need, not just humans. Even animals need the knowledge of where to find food and water, and how to escape dangers of the environment. Humans, however, have something that animals don't have, and that is a brain capable of processing written and spoken language. Written knowledge is out there, just waiting to be used by animals, but animals can't use it. They don't have brains capable of processing it. That is why a HUMAN brain is of primary importance to every living HUMAN being.
Nice attempt at more muddling.

We're not talking about what's most important to animals, but what's most important to a human being with a functioning brain.
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