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Old December 18th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #61
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i know i make assumptions, thats why i am always looking to learn new things and keep my understanding of an issue up to date. i know full well that what i see and hear and experience is a very poor way of judging reality and those experiences always need to be validated, tempered, measured against objectivity and alternatives.
Except for those alternatives which you automatically dismiss because you assume they cannot be valid. I get it.



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and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.
They are not my own beliefs? I wouldn't be posting my beliefs on this forum if they were not my own beliefs.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by waitingtables' timestamp='1323803369' post='372208

No. Science simply doesn't have all of the answers yet. If people 2000 years ago saw a jet plane, they would assume that it was proof of God's existence, which of course we know it isn't. Just because we haven't gotten past what happened to cause the big bang doesn't mean it is a supernatural event. Your analysis is way off.


Funny, I see a jet plane today, and that is proof enough of God's existence.



Yes, I hear the standard atheist response to the fact that science ends at the Big Bang. And they all say that, "Oh, we just haven't figured it out yet what happened on the other side." And so to try and explain the otherwise unexplainable, the atheist proposes string theories, and alternate universes and the like, which if true allow that this universe is merely one of an infinite number of universes, which if true, allows that all we see has always been and always will be, supposing that somehow, someday, not only will be able to understand the natural laws that do not agree with all of the other natural laws that we know about, but also be able to understand 'infinity' living in an 'finite' world.



So somehow, atheists can believe in infinity, and associate it with a finite universe, but they cannot believe in infinity, and associate it with an infinite universe, all of their proposed theories designed to try to explain around the existence of God. And they do that for one reason, these atheists, not you of course. They do it because if God exists, then they must submit to God. Once God is shown to them, they must admit that there is something more important in the universe than they are, and submit to that truth. And they do not like that, these atheists, not you.



And I could understand atheism, again nothing that pertains to you, and espousing a presumed certainty that God does not exist, such as this OP here has chose to do here, attempting to ridicule those who do not agree with him, if after performing an exhaustive search for the truth of the matter, the atheist had positively discounted the very possibility of God, using all objective scientific means to do so. But that is not the case, because the known science points to God, or at least leaves the possibility of God open. Given the magnitude and wonder of all creation before him, the atheist, a finite being, finds it easy to believe in the infinite, given no evidence that it exists, but somehow cannot believe in an infinite being that created all that he or she sees, given that the known natural laws require that one exist. So we see a dichotomy of thought here, in the atheist, not you, which can only reasonably be explained by concluding that the atheist believes what he or she prefers to be the truth, regardless of the evidence for or against that belief.


That's pretty much what it is. Theists freely admit to exercising faith. Atheists usually don't. That's why most atheists are basically dishonest.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #63
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and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.


As a solution, do you suggest genocide, or life imprisonment for people with beliefs long past their use by date?
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Old December 18th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by hot dragon' timestamp='1324264392' post='372783

and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.


As a solution, do you suggest genocide, or life imprisonment for people with beliefs long past their use by date?


of course not, it is a free society, believe away!



but if you are going to post them on a public internet debate site, expect them to be criticised.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 09:08 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1324274466' post='372799

[quote name='hot dragon' timestamp='1324264392' post='372783']

and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.


As a solution, do you suggest genocide, or life imprisonment for people with beliefs long past their use by date?


of course not, it is a free society, believe away!



but if you are going to post them on a public internet debate site, expect them to be criticised.

[/quote]



Oh, criticism is expected, and even your arrogant attitude is no surprise either.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by hot dragon' timestamp='1324264392' post='372783

i know i make assumptions, thats why i am always looking to learn new things and keep my understanding of an issue up to date. i know full well that what i see and hear and experience is a very poor way of judging reality and those experiences always need to be validated, tempered, measured against objectivity and alternatives.
Except for those alternatives which you automatically dismiss because you assume they cannot be valid. I get it.



Quote:
and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.
They are not my own beliefs? I wouldn't be posting my beliefs on this forum if they were not my own beliefs.


those alternatives i weigh against their competitors, read the debate on both sides, find objective evidence and unbiased information on each argument. yeah, if this is making assumptions i suppose i do.



religious people love to think that science is a religion (as IT has repeatedly claimed). they like to imagine that science has its sets of doctrine that every scientist reads and worships and then spends their time defending. they like to think science functions the same as religion does, i guess because they think in a certain way and cannot imagine anyone thinking differently.



but, ok, you got me, i'm sorry, you do believe your beliefs. i promise i will stick to questioning your beliefs and cease from challenging your belief in your beliefs. i believe i can do that.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:04 AM   #67
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you make assumptions and then stick to them. and when reality rears its ugly head you ignore the truth, pretend reality is different, tell blatant lies and continue to cling to your ideas. you have your fingers in your ears, your eyes tightly shut and actually think you are well informed.


Are you describing atheists?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:07 AM   #68
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It is sometimes just going through the motions at the start, but living a life of integrity, and trying to live up to a set of values and principles based on the Golden Rule gets easier and becomes habitual. And it feels good. And you're never done doing it while you're alive.






Eph 2:8-9



8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:



9 Not of works, lest any man should boast .

KJV
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
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Originally Posted by Bookworm' timestamp='1324271316' post='372790

[quote name='hot dragon' timestamp='1324264392' post='372783']

i know i make assumptions, thats why i am always looking to learn new things and keep my understanding of an issue up to date. i know full well that what i see and hear and experience is a very poor way of judging reality and those experiences always need to be validated, tempered, measured against objectivity and alternatives.
Except for those alternatives which you automatically dismiss because you assume they cannot be valid. I get it.



Quote:
and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.
They are not my own beliefs? I wouldn't be posting my beliefs on this forum if they were not my own beliefs.


those alternatives i weigh against their competitors, read the debate on both sides, find objective evidence and unbiased information on each argument. yeah, if this is making assumptions i suppose i do.



religious people love to think that science is a religion (as IT has repeatedly claimed). they like to imagine that science has its sets of doctrine that every scientist reads and worships and then spends their time defending. they like to think science functions the same as religion does, i guess because they think in a certain way and cannot imagine anyone thinking differently.



but, ok, you got me, i'm sorry, you do believe your beliefs. i promise i will stick to questioning your beliefs and cease from challenging your belief in your beliefs. i believe i can do that.

[/quote]



Hey, I'd like you to provide a quote from me saying that. Good luck. After you can't find one, I'd really appreciate a retraction from you for your putting words into my mouth to support your argument.



Atheists, not scientists, do practice a religion, despite their dishonest claim that science supports atheism which it doesn't. You can find numerous quotes of mine saying that.



Also, your rude, mocking demeanor with bookworm, a genteel, polite poster, demonstrates a mind as closed as the mind of the most extreme fundamentalist proselytizer of any religion.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by hot dragon' timestamp='1324275862' post='372803

[quote name='Bookworm' timestamp='1324271316' post='372790']

[quote name='hot dragon' timestamp='1324264392' post='372783']

i know i make assumptions, thats why i am always looking to learn new things and keep my understanding of an issue up to date. i know full well that what i see and hear and experience is a very poor way of judging reality and those experiences always need to be validated, tempered, measured against objectivity and alternatives.
Except for those alternatives which you automatically dismiss because you assume they cannot be valid. I get it.



Quote:
and you do not claim your own assumptions at all, they are not your beliefs, they are someone elses mythology and they are long past their use by date.
They are not my own beliefs? I wouldn't be posting my beliefs on this forum if they were not my own beliefs.


those alternatives i weigh against their competitors, read the debate on both sides, find objective evidence and unbiased information on each argument. yeah, if this is making assumptions i suppose i do.



religious people love to think that science is a religion (as IT has repeatedly claimed). they like to imagine that science has its sets of doctrine that every scientist reads and worships and then spends their time defending. they like to think science functions the same as religion does, i guess because they think in a certain way and cannot imagine anyone thinking differently.



but, ok, you got me, i'm sorry, you do believe your beliefs. i promise i will stick to questioning your beliefs and cease from challenging your belief in your beliefs. i believe i can do that.

[/quote]



Hey, I'd like you to provide a quote from me saying that. Good luck. After you can't find one, I'd really appreciate a retraction from you for putting words into my mouth to support your argument.



Atheists, on the other hand, do practice a religion, despite their dishonest claim that science supports atheism which it doesn't. You can find numerous quotes of mine saying that.

[/quote]



Wow, a brand-new, never before heard, point being made!!
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