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Old November 25th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookworm' timestamp='1353716765' post='439862

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1353694401' post='439838']

[quote name='Bookworm' timestamp='1353651352' post='439800']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1353564577' post='439742']

[quote name='Bookworm' timestamp='1353541932' post='439643']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1353536273' post='439598']

It's right there, right in the Bible.



The Gospel is the good news that "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."



That's good news!! Hallelujah!!!



A great article on universalism in the Bible.
The verse simply says that all who are "in Christ" shall be made alive. Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Verse 9 says, "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." So, some people do NOT belong to God, they are "not his." They are not "in Christ." God only promised that those who are "in Christ" will be made alive.


Grammatically, you are wrong. The "all" in the verse is the same word as in "all have sinned." You explain away, incorrectly, the triumph of Christ's resurrection. Why, I have no idea....

[/quote]Yes, all have sinned, and in Adam all are subject to death. But you are explaining away, incorrectly, the responsibility of mankind to receive Christ. John 1:12 says, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name." John 3:18 makes it clear that not all people believe. "“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." So the condemnation of death applies to everyone, but it can be removed by belief, and only by belief. The resurrection of Christ does not automatically make everyone believe.

[/quote]



No it doesn't, nor does disbelief in this lifetime mean a sentence to an eternity in conscious torment. It may well mean a limited time in conscious torment of a kind we've all experienced when someone we love dies, and we have thoughts and feelings we wished we'd communicated to them while they were alive.



Some ot the details are vague, and likely purposely were left vague, but the Gospel is a triumphant declaration of God's complete victory, and of all God's children being called home.

[/quote]But as the verse I quoted shows you, people are NOT all Gods' children unless they believe. That detail is NOT at all vague. I Thess. 1:7-10 makes a clear distinction between what happen to those who believe and those who don't - "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,[sup] [/sup]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.[sup] [/sup]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [sup] [/sup]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe."

[/quote]



You look it up, the Greek word translated "everlasting." I've done it a number of times here on DTT, but somehow it doesn't register. You look it up, please.[/quote]I understand what you have said about "everlasting" in the past, but the verse I posted had the word "destruction" after everlasting. That certainly seems more intense than just an "age" of living with the consequences of one's actions while here on earth. The word translated "everlasting" can mean more than just an "age," which you seem to think the word is confined to.



Quote:
Then, try to explain away this:



1 Tim. 4:10

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
I think this web page gives a pretty good explanation.

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2...thy_410_by.php



And this:



Quote:
1 John 2:2
Quote:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Here is an explanation of this verse:

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2..._22_by_pas.php





Quote:
And this:
Quote:



Romans 11:32

For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
I don't even need another web page for this one. The verse does not say that God WILL show mercy to all, He may do so, but only if all were to believe. Even the OFFER of salvation for those who believe is an act of mercy which God does not have to provide.



Do you have any verses that say all people will actually BELIEVE, since that needs to happen for all people to get to heaven?
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Old November 25th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #12
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The sad, and undeniable, fact of the matter is that the Roman Church perverted the glorious Gospel, the Truth that set people free, into an enslaving religion based upon the fear of spending eternity in conscious torment, and with the assurance that through tithing and obedience to priests, bishops, and popes, and ONLY through tithing and obedience, an x eternity in conscious torment could be avoided.
You certainly do not know much about evangelical Christianity if you think tithing and obedience are the way we present salvation. I don't even believe in tithing, since tithing was a command to Old Testament Jews and not a command to the New Testament church.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #13
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pensacola_niceman" data-cid="439730" data-time="1353551228">


Jesus sure has a lot of expectations and responsibility.
</blockquote>


more than most in this country now, care to ponder
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