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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #11
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i would even go far as to say all of them are likely wrong. when you failed your first math test, did the teacher tell you to give up and go home?
No

But the teacher DID communicate to me in a clear and precise manner WHY I failed the test.

So far no clear and precise communication from god.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #12
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john 13:35

if we're gonna love each other, we gotta get together and practice that.
"We" are all children of God.

If I walk inside to pay for my gasoline, meet a person having a SSDD, interact with that person so that when I leave and wish him or her a good day, he or she enthusiastically wishes me the same, I've practiced love and so has the person.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #13
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If each profess to know god's wishes, all but one of them must be wrong in some aspect. There, I fixed it for you. Then we get back to a point made by Wolfe35, I think about the logic failure of an omnipotent god not being able to communicate well.
We tend to limit God, tend to remake God in the image of a human.

We tend to limit "the truth." We tend to believe we "know" the truth, which is the prime reason why we limit it.

Imo, God speaks to all of us in ways we are able to hear, if we listen. If we fail to hear, no blame can be laid at the feet of the Creator, unless one chooses to indict the gift of free will.

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.

This verse isn't a justification for ever thing and purpose as it is sometimes used, rather, that every thing and purpose can be used by the Spirit to assist us in learning what is justified, and what isn't ... if we choose to be willing to be taught.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #14
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No

But the teacher DID communicate to me in a clear and precise manner WHY I failed the test.

So far no clear and precise communication from god.
you start with an assumption this is about you. it might even be about you, but because you assume that definitely shows a lack of humility. and certainly many religious sages have stressed the importance of humility.

I recall a television show about an elite army unit. the soldier preparing applicants for their test(or audition) explained to them, "my purpose is not to teach you, or train you or educate you. I am here to fail you if I can, because when I am in it, I don't want a failure watching my back."

I am not saying God wants us to fail. I just present that as an example. there is an awkwardness here. once again I am making metaphors for things that may have no comparison available.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #15
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you start with an assumption this is about you. it might even be about you, but because you assume that definitely shows a lack of humility. and certainly many religious sages have stressed the importance of humility.

I recall a television show about an elite army unit. the soldier preparing applicants for their test(or audition) explained to them, "my purpose is not to teach you, or train you or educate you. I am here to fail you if I can, because when I am in it, I don't want a failure watching my back."

I am not saying God wants us to fail. I just present that as an example. there is an awkwardness here. once again I am making metaphors for things that may have no comparison available.
Even the guy who said "I am here to fail you" clearly communicates what the expectations are. He might do his damndest to make sure you don't meet those expectations.....but he is also damn sure you know what those expectations are.

"god" doesn't even do that.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 10:53 AM   #16
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Not even the Apostles who walked with the Christ understood what he taught, according to the Bible.

They immediately recreated the church hierarchies against which the Christ railed.

The Gospel is Simple Truth, useless for gathering temporal power.

The final apostasy was the marriage of the Roman Church and the Roman Empire, an apostasy that carries forward to this day, and the perversion of the Gospel invented by the Church, perversions that are considered gospel truth.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 11:05 AM   #17
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in no particular order:

choosing a fellowship of believers whose doctrine you will share helps you to examine yourself.

having a family of people who are pledged to care about you can be a comfort in times of tragedy and trial.

once a week you get confronted with new ideas and a chance to share ideas of your own

to learn humility

give meaning and purpose to your life


this list is not comprehensive. and i make assumptions that to even consider joining a church you have, or wish to cultivate, a love for God.
no all those reasons are fake excuses

u belong to a church, bc u refuse to b alone, u dont want to assume any responsability or true perspective on urself existence

noone choose to exist, it happens unfortunately n obviously it doesnt know any right

existing is individuality that mean conscious out of so much different realities that affect the being in different levels

so u invent how u belong to a church, meanin a community condition justified from up being the only way to b, as if up too is sayin no dont b individual even if that is the existence sense, but no we just use it to have fun together it is much better, we laugh and sing as children do n the father is also a cute kid that enjoy hugs and kisses and songs

the problem is not how retarded u r, while u r retarded but it is not the prob

the problem is how that retarded is the lie version to lighten the tremendous heaviness of evil will u keep carrying inside to give it a life

essentially, there are right and wrong

u r wrong others are right

essentially rights are what keep respecting objective unit values, even if it means to become less when the value is not objective

essentially wrong are who take excuse of objective unit to scotch to as one careless about any property of objective right, insistin to reject the free obligation to respect else fact being existing

bc it is free u dont want to recognize it, u put conditions seein wat u can get in exchange

true life is only to essential rights, not bc they recognize else rights but bc they dont have to become less so they have freedom rights balance to what they freely alone meant not being for positive truth respect

while wrong are wat kept expanding and takin proportions of infinite evil life enough to get to force rights to b possessed while makin fun of how it is easy to ruin the respectful minds of individual rights

obviously rights wont get any rescue obviously too much rights are burried possessed by worse, but also obviously the war between right n wrong has just started

bc in time the fact is clear, right n wrong are essentially so the sense is to the split that cant b avoided

till positive rights become living individualities so only then truth would appear existing objective superiority source which is the only answer to finish wrong as never existing in essence, by truth presence, essences become nothing while truth present is the only reference of free senses
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Old May 27th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #18
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Even the guy who said "I am here to fail you" clearly communicates what the expectations are. He might do his damndest to make sure you don't meet those expectations.....but he is also damn sure you know what those expectations are.

"god" doesn't even do that.
i think God has made it very clear to me that I fail.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #19
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i think God has made it very clear to me that I fail.
Funny how he hasn't made it clear to EVERYONE.

You think you know what god wants....fine.

But you would think that an omnipotent god would make sure that EVERYONE has that information. Especially considering that the ramifications are eternal in nature.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #20
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seek and you will find.

not seeking, well, sorry we'll miss you.

the recent star trek movie had me thinking about this question between us. the "non-interference" or "prime directive" comes up in the new movie. you have argued that free will is not sufficient justification for the life that God has us living. so do you oppose the prime directive in the star trek universe, since by depriving primitive cultures of advanced technology the federation is sentencing thousands of generations of millions of people to sickness, starvation, and death?
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