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Old June 26th, 2016, 09:45 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
I think God caught more blame than Eve.
And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
So the man blamed God and God blamed the woman. It still amounts to man not taking responsibility for his actions. And- according to this belief system- god gave the one who chose to point the finger of blame power OVER the one who made decisions for herself.

Thinking further on this, it also explains the trend to link shifting blame with power, but that's a whole other potential thread.

Understand that this is the subject that got me thrown out of Sunday School class the first time for asking the wrong questions. I've gone over it many times since then.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 10:19 AM   #82
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If you believe in a rape culture in the United States then you believe... *clipped*
What I believe is that we have a society where is still acceptable for a guy to blame a woman for his actions. I was very clear on that.

There is a difference between rape, sexual assault, sexual intimidation and sexual harassment. There are those that believe that they are all the same, but generally the level/type of trauma that each causes is different. Make no mistake though; ALL of these can cause long term trauma and pain that can strip a person of their sense of safety. The fact that so many believe that women should 'learn to take a joke' in situations of harassment and intimidation has created the exact backlash that you are railing against.

It would not be wrong to define this as a 'rape culture' though there are some who feel the term is too strong. It is all part and parcel of the same mode of thinking.

That said...

You are not legally entitled to a due process before being removed from any school for any reason. You are entitled to a defense hearing if you face charges from the local/state/federal government. Schools that use tribunals after breeches of rules do so at their own discretion.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 10:31 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho View Post
What I believe is that we have a society where is still acceptable for a guy to blame a woman for his actions. I was very clear on that.

There is a difference between rape, sexual assault, sexual intimidation and sexual harassment. There are those that believe that they are all the same, but generally the level/type of trauma that each causes is different. Make no mistake though; ALL of these can cause long term trauma and pain that can strip a person of their sense of safety. The fact that so many believe that women should 'learn to take a joke' in situations of harassment and intimidation has created the exact backlash that you are railing against.

It would not be wrong to define this as a 'rape culture' though there are some who feel the term is too strong. It is all part and parcel of the same mode of thinking.

That said...

You are not legally entitled to a due process before being removed from any school for any reason. You are entitled to a defense hearing if you face charges from the local/state/federal government. Schools that use tribunals after breeches of rules do so at their own discretion.
So far I believe all sexual assault type hearings and the removals from universities have been overturned in courts for a lack of due process.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 10:50 AM   #84
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So far I believe all sexual assault type hearings and the removals from universities have been overturned in courts for a lack of due process.
I just looked it up.

Public universities are required to provide due process. Private universities are under no obligation to do the same.

My mistake.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 10:55 AM   #85
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I just looked it up.

Public universities are required to provide due process. Private universities are under no obligation to do the same.

My mistake.
I have followed these due process cases pretty closely.

A good rule of thumb: any entity that gets tax payer dollars are held to a higher constitutional standard and the Bill of Rights applies to all of their policies and procedures. Private entities are more subjected to statutory laws such as Title VII, etc.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 10:59 AM   #86
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A good rule of thumb: any entity that gets tax payer dollars are held to a higher constitutional standard and the Bill of Rights applies to all of their policies and procedures. Private entities are more subjected to statutory laws such as Title VII, etc.
Generally true, but this has not always been applied at schools.

To this day high school students that are disciplinary problems can be expelled without a hearing. This is true of public schools as well. (This might vary state to state.)
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Old June 26th, 2016, 11:11 AM   #87
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Generally true, but this has not always been applied at schools.

To this day high school students that are disciplinary problems can be expelled without a hearing. This is true of public schools as well. (This might vary state to state.)
Actions and due process can be mutually exclusive. Expelling a student for breaking a clearly defined rule with sufficient evidence would fall under equal protection if the punishment is not given equally. The student can always appeal the suspension, and how that is handled can fall under procedural due process.

It is sort of like a cop arresting someone for a crime they saw them commit. Due process comes into play after the arrest. This would differ from an accusation that may require due process to advance.

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Old June 26th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #88
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You people are crazy if you think 4.5 deaths per 100,000 is acceptable.In 1995 1 year before the gun buyback in Australia homicides were 2 per 100,000, 18 years later in 2013 homicides were only 1.2 per 100,000.

And you guys in America think 4.5 is ok.Are you guys fkn mental?????????????

This information was supplied buy the Australian institute for criminology.
Ah, sarcasm I may get a hard on.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #89
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Ah, sarcasm I may get a hard on.
What was particularly sarcastic about it?
He listed some statistics relating to murder in both Australia and the U.S.

Why would sarcasm give you a hard on? OK, I understand, each to his own. There are guys that are really turned on a nice legs, big boobs, even shapely petite feet, but SARCASM???
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Old June 26th, 2016, 12:57 PM   #90
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There definitely a culture of blaming women for the actions of men (i.e. Eve's fault for Adam biting the apple) that has been woven into the general culture for a very very long time. It has allowed, over the course of time, for victim blaming (she shouldn't have been there/dressed that way/should have known better/etc.) Women are still viewed with suspicion when sexually assaulted.

Even though it is now politically incorrect to think this way, it is obvious to that this is NOT gone from the cultural psyche.

I'm taking a guess that this is what she was referring to.
That is not the case at all in 2016 or for the last 20 years. Victim blaming, is now an excuse to do away with due process and convict on only the word of a person without any evidence. Furthermore if you want to go down that road how many high profile rape false accusations have there been? Also lets get down to brass tacks about it. In this current rape culture fantasy intoxication is automatically rape regardless of the condition of all parties. What is intoxication? That is up to the person who claims rape to decide now isnt it. The truth is that is regret sex, not rape. No one forced anyone to get drunk. No one forced anyone to make a regrettable decision after being drunk. That is on you. Please do not distort this with the oh they slipped a mickey in such and such drink. Furthermore if that is the new standard of rape then riddle me this. Why cant a male claim rape if he had coyote ugly the next morning? Sources below.
Attorneys Release Texts Connected to Infamous UVa Rape Hoax ? and They Claim the Messages Reveal Shocking Twist | TheBlaze.com
The Jian Ghomeshi Rape Hoax Shows Why Due Process Matters
Brooklyn Gang Rape A Hoax, ?Victim? Confesses To Having Consensual Sex With Teens And Her Own Father
No remorse from administrators in Duke lacrosse rape hoax | Washington Examiner
redefining rape and intoxication

University of Michigan: Withholding Sex, Discounting Feelings are ?Sexual Violence' - The College Fix
Sex While Drunk Is Now Legally Rape In California (Seriously, It Is) | Thought Catalog
https://share.cornell.edu/education-...clear-consent/
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