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Old August 20th, 2016, 10:57 AM   #1
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Poor don't have to post bail

Will IT need a new job?

Quote:
Justice Department Says Poor Can't Be Held When They Can't Afford Bail


Holding defendants in jail because they can't afford to make bail is unconstitutional, the Justice Department said in a court filing late Thursday ó the first time the government has taken such a position before a federal appeals court.

It's the latest step by the Obama administration in encouraging state courts to move away from imposing fixed cash bail amounts and jailing those who can't pay.

"Bail practices that incarcerate indigent individuals before trial solely because of their inability to pay for their release violate the Fourteenth Amendment," the Justice Department said in a friend of court brief, citing the Constitution's guarantee of equal protection.
I'm quite torn on this. I can see both sides.

Justice Department Says Poor Can't Be Held When They Can't Afford Bail - NBC News
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Old August 20th, 2016, 11:15 AM   #2
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They have a long road to prove that as the last time that came up was in 1989:

Browning-Ferris Industries of Vt., Inc. v. Kelco Disposal, Inc., 492 U. S. 257, 276, n. 22 (1989)
We shall not decide whether the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on excessive fines applies to the several States through the Fourteenth Amendment, nor shall we decide whether the Eighth Amendment protects corporations as well as individuals.
There was a ruling with United States v. Hyppolite, 65 F.3d 1151 4th Cir. 1995, but that only addressed the the "abuse-of-discretion" doctrine regarding arbitrary, and capricious fines and bail, so that would not apply to a standard bail.

All doctrine relates to excessive and not the financial disposition of the accused. There will be an equal protection challenge under the current use of the equal protection clause if one class is not required to post bail because they cannot afford it and another class being imposed bail because they can afford it.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 11:20 AM   #3
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Remember the old adage, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Let's let the responsibility for criminal actions lie with the criminal. Their crime, their time.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 12:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Remember the old adage, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Let's let the responsibility for criminal actions lie with the criminal. Their crime, their time.
Presumption of innocence
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Old August 20th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #5
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In the UK bail is normally granted after the imposition of certain conditions the accused has to follow after their release. The imposition of financial guarantees is quite rare, and is never used if it is clear to the court that the accused cannot afford to pay .
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Last edited by MichaelT; August 20th, 2016 at 02:13 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 02:20 PM   #6
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The context of this thread will prove to be too difficult for the Right wing mindset to follow.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 02:24 PM   #7
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Unreasonable bail ranks right up there with civil asset forfeiture , badly abused.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 02:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Remember the old adage, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Let's let the responsibility for criminal actions lie with the criminal. Their crime, their time.
i tend to agree but i also think it depends on the crime..
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Old August 20th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
They have a long road to prove that as the last time that came up was in 1989:

Browning-Ferris Industries of Vt., Inc. v. Kelco Disposal, Inc., 492 U. S. 257, 276, n. 22 (1989)
We shall not decide whether the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on excessive fines applies to the several States through the Fourteenth Amendment, nor shall we decide whether the Eighth Amendment protects corporations as well as individuals.
There was a ruling with United States v. Hyppolite, 65 F.3d 1151 4th Cir. 1995, but that only addressed the the "abuse-of-discretion" doctrine regarding arbitrary, and capricious fines and bail, so that would not apply to a standard bail.

All doctrine relates to excessive and not the financial disposition of the accused. There will be an equal protection challenge under the current use of the equal protection clause if one class is not required to post bail because they cannot afford it and another class being imposed bail because they can afford it.
Uh, wut?

Fines are imposed after the disposition of a case as part of the final judgement.

Bail is imposed as means of release after arrest, before any trials. The ruling regarding poor defendents sitting in jail for months or even years before their trials, usually involving petty crimes and drug offenses (I repeat myself), and will be incarcerated longer than any time, if any was imposed, as a part of the final disposition of the case.

Unlike rich little white boys, or those whose parents are politically, or well connected, who don't sit in jail for an hour after some horrific crimes in certain cases.

And then get off with light sentences after their $100,000 attorneys argue they're suffering from "Affluenza".

In which case I could make an argument that the judge who arrived at that ruling should be sitting in jail with no bail.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 03:05 PM   #10
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America's justice system has come to resemble the debtors prisons of antiquity.
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