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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #51
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Venezuela did seize the means of production. That is what Socialism is

Factbox: Venezuela's nationalizations under Chavez | Reuters
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Chavez was about as limited as the USSR
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Yes, don't let little things like facts get in the way of your prejudices.
Ok. I posted the facts, you apparently failed to read them. So, here you go pumpkin (stole that from sab)
OIL

Quote:
* In 2007, Chavez's government took a majority stake in four oil projects in the vast Orinoco heavy crude belt worth an estimated $30 billion in total.

Exxon Mobil Corp and ConocoPhillips quit the country as a result and filed arbitration claims. Late last year, an arbitration panel ordered Venezuela to pay Exxon $908 million, though a larger case is still ongoing.

France's Total SA and Norway's StatoilHydro ASA received about $1 billion in compensation after reducing their holdings. Britain's BP Plc and America's Chevron Corp remained as minority partners.

* In 2008, Chavez's administration implemented a windfall tax of 50 percent for prices over $70 per barrel, and 60 percent on oil over $100. Oil reached $147 that year, but soon slumped.
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* In 2009, Chavez seized a major gas injection project belonging to Williams Cos Inc and a range of assets from local service companies. This year, the energy minister said the government would pay $420 million to Williams and one of its U.S. partners, Exterran Holdings, for the takeover.

* In June 2010, the government seized 11 oil rigs from Oklahoma-based Helmerich & Payne Inc.
That is called seizing the means of production.now moving on

Quote:
* In 2009, Chavez nationalized a rice mill operated by a local unit of U.S. food giant Cargill Inc.

* In October 2010, Venezuela nationalized Fertinitro, one of the world's biggest producers of nitrogen fertilizer, as well as Agroislena, a major local agricultural supply company. It also said it would take control of nearly 200,000 hectares (494,000 acres) of land owned by British meat company Vestey Foods.

* Vestey had already filed for arbitration over the earlier takeover of a ranch. Chavez said the latest deal with Vestey was a "friendly agreement."

* In 2005, Chavez began implementing a 2001 law letting the state expropriate unproductive farms or seize land without proper titles. He has redistributed millions of acres deemed idle to boost food production and ease rural poverty.

* Chavez's government has repeatedly threatened to seize Empresas Polar, Venezuela's biggest employer and largest brewer and food processor.
Look, we have a new word to go with seize. Nationalized. Huh, isnt that special. Oh, that is, ok all together class. Seizing the means of production.

Quote:
* In June 2010, Venezuela took over the mid-sized bank Banco Federal, citing liquidity problems and risk of fraud. The bank was closely linked to anti-government TV station Globovision.

* In 2009, Chavez paid $1 billion for Banco de Venezuela, a division of Spanish bank Grupo Santander.

* The government has closed a dozen small banks since November 2009 for what it said were operational irregularities. Some were reopened as state-run firms. Brokerages have also been closed and some employees jailed. Chavez has vowed to nationalize any bank that fails to meet government lending guidelines or is in financial trouble.
there is more..but I think you get the point. So, defend Chavez some more. Tell me how he was not a text book example of Socialism. Please, do I really want to know. Oh, wait, you are going to say that was different because he was a dictator..hmm well
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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:12 AM   #52
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False!
It's you who must prove why it wouldn't work on.a national level in this country.
As it's never been tried here you have no basis of comparison making anything you say about it a false premise.
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Would that be the history rewritten by the GOP??
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Ok. I posted the facts, you apparently failed to read them. So, here you go pumpkin (stole that from sab)
OIL
* In 2007, Chavez's government took a majority stake in four oil projects in the vast Orinoco heavy crude belt worth an estimated $30 billion in total.

Exxon Mobil Corp and ConocoPhillips quit the country as a result and filed arbitration claims. Late last year, an arbitration panel ordered Venezuela to pay Exxon $908 million, though a larger case is still ongoing.

France's Total SA and Norway's StatoilHydro ASA received about $1 billion in compensation after reducing their holdings. Britain's BP Plc and America's Chevron Corp remained as minority partners.

* In 2008, Chavez's administration implemented a windfall tax of 50 percent for prices over $70 per barrel, and 60 percent on oil over $100. Oil reached $147 that year, but soon slumped.
ADVERTISING

* In 2009, Chavez seized a major gas injection project belonging to Williams Cos Inc and a range of assets from local service companies. This year, the energy minister said the government would pay $420 million to Williams and one of its U.S. partners, Exterran Holdings, for the takeover.

* In June 2010, the government seized 11 oil rigs from Oklahoma-based Helmerich & Payne Inc.
* In 2009, Chavez nationalized a rice mill operated by a local unit of U.S. food giant Cargill Inc.

* In October 2010, Venezuela nationalized Fertinitro, one of the world's biggest producers of nitrogen fertilizer, as well as Agroislena, a major local agricultural supply company. It also said it would take control of nearly 200,000 hectares (494,000 acres) of land owned by British meat company Vestey Foods.

* Vestey had already filed for arbitration over the earlier takeover of a ranch. Chavez said the latest deal with Vestey was a "friendly agreement."

* In 2005, Chavez began implementing a 2001 law letting the state expropriate unproductive farms or seize land without proper titles. He has redistributed millions of acres deemed idle to boost food production and ease rural poverty.

* Chavez's government has repeatedly threatened to seize Empresas Polar, Venezuela's biggest employer and largest brewer and food processor.
That is called seizing the means of production.now moving on

Look, we have a new word to go with seize. Nationalized. Huh, isnt that special. Oh, that is, ok all together class. Seizing the means of production.


there is more..but I think you get the point. So, defend Chavez some more. Tell me how he was not a text book example of Socialism. Please, do I really want to know. Oh, wait, you are going to say that was different because he was a dictator..hmm well
That should answer questions concerning Socialism and dictators. USSR, etc. etc. Socialism does not work without the point of a gun and stealing. If you think different then you ignore history and truth.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:26 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by coke View Post
That should answer questions concerning Socialism and dictators. USSR, etc. etc. Socialism does not work without the point of a gun and stealing. If you think different then you ignore history and truth.

...but...but...Sweden and stuff, oh wait.

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AND the quaking sheep STILL can't figure out the meaning of socialism. OH yes. They THINK they know, which is why we hear the repetitious chants about the evils of socialism and how IT NEVER WORKS--NEVER. Then they offer up the Scandinavian countries as examples. Knock Knock!! Anyone home?
There are NO dictators and in fact myths about Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc. are simply that. MYTHS.
In the Scandinavian countries, like all other developed nations, the means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective uses by the market, not government or community planning. Scandinavian countries DO provide things like a generous social safety net and universal healthcare, an extensive welfare state is not the same thing as socialism. Their system is called social democracy.


Shit.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 07:21 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Yes, don't let little things like facts get in the way of your prejudices.
Seems your letting your prejudices get in the way of facts.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 07:24 AM   #55
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AHHHH.....well, I must say I am touched that you are so concerned about my lack of understanding on the topic of Socialism.
AND we are all refreshed and delighted to read your post. Thank you, Pumpkin. I stole that from Sabcat too.
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Last edited by Clara007; March 16th, 2017 at 07:27 AM.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #56
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Seems your letting your prejudices get in the way of facts.
How would you know ?
You've never seen a fact that didn't cause you to faint.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:27 AM   #57
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AHHHH.....well, I must say I am touched that you are so concerned about my lack of understanding on the topic of Socialism.
AND we are all refreshed and delighted to read your post. Thank you, Pumpkin. I stole that from Sabcat too.
Actually I am amused at watching you progs fight each other over a lack of understanding of what Socialism is. Half of you want to define Socialism as anytime the government spends money or employees a person. The other half understands it is seizing production, you just can not accept its stealing.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 09:31 AM   #58
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Oh, look another intelligent well thought out statement pertaining to the op.
Which word is inaccurate, child? ('Bugger', of course, merely conveys contempt, and has nothing to do with Republican sexual habits).
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Old March 16th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #59
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Which word is inaccurate, child? ('Bugger', of course, merely conveys contempt, and has nothing to do with Republican sexual habits).
true, you didn't mention necrophilia even once.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 11:59 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by coke View Post
Ok. I posted the facts, you apparently failed to read them. So, here you go pumpkin (stole that from sab)
OIL


That is called seizing the means of production.now moving on

Look, we have a new word to go with seize. Nationalized. Huh, isnt that special. Oh, that is, ok all together class. Seizing the means of production.


there is more..but I think you get the point. So, defend Chavez some more. Tell me how he was not a text book example of Socialism. Please, do I really want to know. Oh, wait, you are going to say that was different because he was a dictator..hmm well
There are also many industries that are not nationalized.
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