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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:09 AM   #71
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Personal insult only post? Are you to vapid to actually state anything with substance?
Okay: You are a thick bugger even for someone licking Trump's arse, and that IS saying something!
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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:26 AM   #72
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Okay: You are a thick bugger even for someone licking Trump's arse, and that IS saying something!
No, it is another insult only post. Its all good. I am sure your a protected species
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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:40 AM   #73
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No, it is another insult only post. Its all good. I am sure your a protected species
Well, honestly, child, can you imagine anyone educated spending time attempting a rational discussion with you? Say something with sense one day and I'll try, honest!
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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #74
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Well, honestly, child, can you imagine anyone educated spending time attempting a rational discussion with you? Say something with sense one day and I'll try, honest!
I have never seen you attempt a conversation at all on here. None. Zero. Zilch with anyone what so ever. All you do is come on here, flame some insult posts or make up stuff with no citation what so ever. But, by all means, show me ANY conversation you have had on here about a subject within a thread. Actually, this is probably the closest to a discussion you have had yet, and still, your just piecing together insult only posts.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:03 AM   #75
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Wish I noticed this drivel before! This is what happens when you look up a subject, but get 100% of your information from rightwing sources: shoddy, inept research crafted in advance to arrive at the desired rightwing conclusion.

This gets off on the wrong foot right from the very start, since the concept of socialism does not begin with Plato, but actually starts with the first human societies that didn't end until well into the neolithic agricultural revolution.
Look into Primitive Communismhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism
Egalitarian and communist-like hunter gatherer societies have been studied and described by many well-known social anthropologists including James Woodburn,[9] Richard Lee,[10] Alan Barnard[11] and, more recently, Jerome Lewis.[12] Anthropologists such as Christopher Boehm,[13] Chris Knight[14] and Jerome Lewis[15] offer theoretical accounts to explain how communistic, assertively egalitarian social arrangements might have emerged in the prehistoric past.


Frederich Engels coined the term "primitive communism" to describe the findings of American early anthropologist-Louis Henry Morgan; who had a great influence on Marx and Engels strategies for creating modern communist organizational structures. Engels didn't understand the descriptions of family life described in existing hunter-gatherers studied by Morgan, or the horticultural societies of the Iroquois he was most familiar with.

What begins to happen...but not universally, after the neolithic revolution, is we begin to see the rise of settled communities, often showing signs of extreme hierarchical social arrangements...like Sumer's city states featuring god-kings to slaves treated as human property.

Maybe because our species spent 200,000 years living in egalitarian, sharing communities, we still haven't adjusted to the new normal of the past 4 to 5000 years...male dominated, warring patriarchies.

A few years ago, several books, including The Spirit Level, made a strong case for working towards equality, by showing stacks of statistical data correlating equality with every standard of personal and societal wellbeing, while the inverse is true of the unequal societies....even when their median wealth is greater than equal ones. But, leave it to the libertarians to keep feeding us more of their poison and telling us it's medicine!
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:09 AM   #76
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None of those nations are Socialist. Now, lets talk about Venezuela.
Sure, let's do that! Venezuela is a mixed economy, same goddammed thing as those Fenoscandians that fill you with rage. Main reason why the US went to war with Hugo and is still trying to destroy the country economically is because Chavez became the first leader of that country to demand that the billions in oil revenues be shared with the people. And stealing from the rich and powerful can't be allowed by the US.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:15 AM   #77
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Stating that Sweden is not a socialist country but calling Sweden a social democracy is oxymoronic. Sweden is either transitioning to a full blown socialist society or they are not. Sweden’s government is a parliamentary democracy. If Sweden has a democratic socialism form of government, then the means of production are controlled by the state. The U.S. tried pure socialism once and everyone almost died.
Socialism means workers own the full value of their labor, and do not have surplus value extracted by a capitalist (owner). In a truly socialist economy, only small or family businesses would be privately run, while larger companies would be cooperatively owned and operated by the employees....a quick example would be Spain's Mondragon cooperative corporation.
Nations that have generous social programs, progressive taxation, but private ownership are called social democracies for a good reason...to distinguish them from socialist.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #78
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Ok. I posted the facts, you apparently failed to read them. So, here you go pumpkin (stole that from sab)
OIL


That is called seizing the means of production.now moving on

Look, we have a new word to go with seize. Nationalized. Huh, isnt that special. Oh, that is, ok all together class. Seizing the means of production.


there is more..but I think you get the point. So, defend Chavez some more. Tell me how he was not a text book example of Socialism. Please, do I really want to know. Oh, wait, you are going to say that was different because he was a dictator..hmm well
Keep us posted when Venezuela seizes all privately owned businesses, like the Soviet Union, China etc......until then, it's still a social democratic mixed economy!
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #79
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Would that be the history rewritten by the GOP??
They already have their history books...written by pseudohistorian- David Barton.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:40 AM   #80
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Amazing how just posting a link brings cheers from the peanut gallery!

Anyway, I'm reading along Mises alleged destruction of Marxism...even though I'm not a Marxist....don't care what Marx meant by "forces of production," because Marxism isn't the only,nor even the first theory of modern socialism...and I already showed you where the first one came from. So, I get to this:

Once one has grasped the point that it is individuals, not the forces of production, who act, the entire Marxist scheme of historical evolution falls by the wayside.


See what's happening here in Mises great dialectic: we get two choices; something called forces of production, or individualism.
Well, anyone who's worked in a factory or any large enterprise knows damn well, how far individualism carries you against the owners of your workplace!

You don't have to be a political theorist of any type to understand that...if you work in a capitalist system, you better be organized and part of a union, or you've got absolutely nothing if the company wants to cut your wages, benefits, or fire you for any given reason.

So, this is why the ownership classes of capitalism love libertarians and radical individualist theorizing so much. In a capitalist society, individuals are not all equal, and if people are unable to form social structures to work together collectively for benefit of a community, then the rich individuals call all the shots....which is pretty much the fucked up situation we have today!
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