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Old May 8th, 2017, 06:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/u...-law.html?_r=0

I think it's past time that the Repub voters recognized the tactics of the Repub politicians to pull crap like this



They claim it's about voter security, but then the implementation brings in something extra: racially focused discrimination.
Why is having an ID card discrimination? Grandma and Grandpa can vote absentee ballot.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 06:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
The minority vote increased in Texas after the voter ID law went into effect regardless of what lostit can find on a liberal website. The Texas law had Supreme Court precedent behind it regardless of of what lostit can find on a liberal website.
It's not my responsibility to prove your claims.


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If someone cannot make it to a Texas DMV in a two year period to get their free voter ID, they have no business voting.
If someone cannot make it to a DMV in a 2 year period, the government has no business denying them voting RIGHTS to prevent an incredibly rare problem of voting fraud.
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud


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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Why is having an ID card discrimination? Grandma and Grandpa can vote absentee ballot.
Why are we even demanding to limit their voting capabilities in the first place?
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Old May 8th, 2017, 06:55 AM   #13
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First mistake of a liberal: there is no constitutional right to vote.

Clickbait is a no go for me.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 06:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It's not my responsibility to prove your claims.



If someone cannot make it to a DMV in a 2 year period, the government has no business denying them voting RIGHTS to prevent an incredibly rare problem of voting fraud.
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud



Why are we even demanding to limit their voting capabilities in the first place?
My Lord I did not say, "Demanding to limit their voting capabilities in the first place." You are putting words in my mouth.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 07:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
My Lord I did not say, "Demanding to limit their voting capabilities in the first place." You are putting words in my mouth.
I agree that's not what is said. And it's not what you said.
But that's exactly what happens. And we should recognize this fact when we start discussing voter ID requirements.

The reality is that a significant segment of the population do not have driver's licenses. And regarding voting via mail, mail gets screwed up all the time. If somebody changes their mailing address and they don't get the ballot by mail, should they then just accept to not vote if they don't have their driver's license?


Let me rephrase this.
Putting restrictions on voting like voter ID will exclude some voters from voting.
There is a legal concept called Blackstone's formulation: ""It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

So an equivalent question should exist regarding voting rights.
How many legitimate voters are we willing to disenfranchise in order to prevent one illegal vote?
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Old May 8th, 2017, 07:46 AM   #16
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On this one I do repeat that as long as the process to get one isn't arduous or expensive, voter ID makes sense.

Voting is a right, but I have always believed that all rights have attached responsibilities. And with the qualifiers above, it is a citizen's responsibility to get an ID.

Again I ask, can someone get any type of welfare without an ID?
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Old May 8th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #17
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The rest of the world requires ID to vote. Why, then, in the United States is this such a contentious subject?
Voter ID: Other Countries Require It | National Review
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Old May 8th, 2017, 07:53 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Why is having an ID card discrimination? Grandma and Grandpa can vote absentee ballot.


Most of us think that getting an appropriate voting ID is pretty easy, but as more restrictions are legislated the more difficult it becomes. It is particularly difficult for minorities, the poor and elderly. Every state is different. Did you know that even presenting a social security card is not enough? Some states will allow a person to vote without photo ID IF they sign an affidavit of identity, so at least they aren't penalized.
In urban areas many people do not own a car--do not drive--have never had a driver's license. They take public transportation or taxis. Many seniors no longer drive. There are fees for voter IDs. Hefty fees for passports. Some call that a poll tax. We should not have to PAY to vote.
In addition, getting to a government office can be difficult. People with physical disabilities struggle with transportation. Finding the acceptable documents can be impossible. The elderly were often born in homes, not hospitals. Names have been changed without proper documentation. Documents are lost in moves, fires, floods.........
So why is having an ID card discrimination?? It is discriminating against those who have no resources, very little money or education, seniors and minorities and the disabled.....ergo it has become a political game.
The GOP claims voter fraud, which has never been credible. The GOP knows that minorities usually vote for a Democratic ticket. Making it difficult to vote takes us back to an era (JIM CROW) where the powerful got to decide who votes and who does NOT.
Democracy only works when it works for everyone. Voter ID laws have no place in any democracy worth its name.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 08:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I agree that's not what is said. And it's not what you said.
But that's exactly what happens. And we should recognize this fact when we start discussing voter ID requirements.

The reality is that a significant segment of the population do not have driver's licenses. And regarding voting via mail, mail gets screwed up all the time. If somebody changes their mailing address and they don't get the ballot by mail, should they then just accept to not vote if they don't have their driver's license?


Let me rephrase this.
Putting restrictions on voting like voter ID will exclude some voters from voting.
There is a legal concept called Blackstone's formulation: ""It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

So an equivalent question should exist regarding voting rights.
How many legitimate voters are we willing to disenfranchise in order to prevent one illegal vote?
At checkpoints in Nazi Germany, Gestapo demands to see "your papers".
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Old May 8th, 2017, 08:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
On this one I do repeat that as long as the process to get one isn't arduous or expensive, voter ID makes sense.
Voting is a right, but I have always believed that all rights have attached responsibilities. And with the qualifiers above, it is a citizen's responsibility to get an ID.
Again I ask, can someone get any type of welfare without an ID?
There are different angles approach this issue.
One is to ask the direct questions, like "What are the statistics on U.S. citizens who don't have a driver's license?"

Another is the approach of trying to ask a different question like "welfare without an ID" which doesn't really broach the issue of statistics of the people involved. It essentially tries to assume it must be okay.

One of the real problems (IMO) with SOME of these types of programs is exemplified with the Texas implementation. They require SPECIFIC forms of ID that are RESTRICTIVE in what people have in the general population. I talked about this here
Texas has LIMITED the means by which people can prove their citizenry in a restrictive way which EXCLUDES many people.
Other states / areas have implemented BROADER ID requirements which allow for more methods to be used to prove one's identity.

For me, I don't object to EVERY voter ID requirement.
But it better be implemented smartly to help maximize voter participation / minimize voter disenfranchisement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by username View Post
The rest of the world requires ID to vote. Why, then, in the United States is this such a contentious subject?
Voter ID: Other Countries Require It | National Review
As with many things, it's the METHOD that is important.
Here is a web-site which talks about many different type of state implementations. Some are more restrictive than others. Some have better "exception" handling (voter doesn't have the listed IDs) than others.

For me, that's what this really boils down to.
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