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Old July 30th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #1
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Trump on the Losing Side of the Culture Wars


The culture war has been going on a long time, and it won't end any time soon. But the outcome is not in doubt. Some conservatives were gratified to see President Donald Trump bar transgender people from the military. The backlash suggests it will be much like the Native Americans' victory at Little Bighorn -- memorable but ultimately irrelevant.

White House officials saw this announcement as a brilliant political move. "This forces Democrats in Rust Belt states like Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin to take complete ownership of this issue," an anonymous administration official gloated to Axios.

Democrats, however, have put their names on the issue the way the president emblazons "Trump" on buildings. If they feared being out of step with their constituents, House Democrats would not have voted unanimously this month against legislation to stop the Pentagon from paying for hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery.

The proposal was defeated -- thanks to 24 Republicans who sided with them. Even Speaker Paul Ryan "declined to fully endorse" it, reported The Washington Post.

Making the case to cut off funding for transgender treatments is easier than making the case for Trump's decree. "House Republicans were never debating expelling all transgender troops from the military," reported Politico. "'This is like someone told the White House to light a candle on the table and the WH set the whole table on fire,' a senior House Republican aide said in an email."

The political wizards in the White House don't seem to have noticed that voters in one of those Rust Belt states, Wisconsin, elected an openly lesbian U.S. senator, Tammy Baldwin, in 2012. Michigan's Sen. Debbie Stabenow had a 92 percent rating from the Human Rights Campaign, which favors gay rights, when she buried her Republican opponent by 21 points in 2012.

A lot of conservative Republicans are not lining up with Trump, either. Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama -- Alabama! -- said, "You ought to treat everybody fairly, and you ought to give everybody a chance to serve." Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah -- Utah! -- said, "I don't think we should be discriminating against anyone. Transgender people are people, and deserve the best we can do for them."

Those who pushed the ban believe it will resound with Trump voters. But during the campaign, he claimed to be a better friend to the LGBT community than Hillary Clinton. He also criticized North Carolina's bathroom bill and invited Caitlyn Jenner to use any restroom she wanted at Trump Tower. Trump's fans didn't seem to mind.

The truth is that the number of Americans inclined to support Trump on this matter isn't large. A Rasmussen survey in June revealed that only 31 percent of voters opposed the Obama administration's policy of allowing transgender troops.

A poll last year by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 53 percent of Americans -- and 36 percent of Republicans -- oppose laws requiring

transgender people to use the restroom corresponding with their sex at birth. Nearly three-quarters of Americans support laws forbidding job discrimination against gays and transgender people -- and 62 percent of Republicans concur.

The zealots cheering Trump won't help his cause. The right-wing Family Research Council had denounced "President Obama's use of the military to engage in liberal social engineering." But the same argument was used against integrating the military, opening the service academies to women and lifting the ban on gays. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

The FRC had vilified Obama's "wicked" policy and "the forces of darkness that gave birth to it." But overtly religious appeals have lost potency. In 2004, the Pew Research Center notes, only 11 percent of white evangelical voters wanted to legalize same-sex marriage. Now it's 35 percent. Support among Catholics has gone from 36 percent in 2004 to 67 percent today.

Attitudes toward transgender people have grown more liberal even though most Americans don't know many of them, if any. But the parallel with gay rights is too compelling to ignore.

Once the norm has been established that gays should be full and equal members of society, it's hard to rationalize penalizing transgender people. In a free and modern society, the nature of inclusion is to expand, not contract.

Trump may get his way on transgender troops, but only temporarily. In the long run, those who see him as an ally should realize how the culture war will end: They lose.

https://townhall.com/columnists/stev...&newsletterad=
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Old July 30th, 2017, 08:18 AM   #2
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progress, followed by regression, followed by progress, that's the story of the US, each progressive wave taking us further than we were before, each wave of regression not quite erasing the progress made before it.
Trump is the latest wave of regression, but the progress that will survive him will provide a base for the next wave of progress that is beyond where we were when Obama took office.

Trump can make things unpleasant for trangender people who wish to serve in the military. But he can't roll back same sex marriage or openly gay service members.
He may yet succeed in rolling back some of ObamaCare, but there are parts of ObamaCare that would take 60 votes in the Senate to roll back.
And public opinion stands as a pretty impressive obstacle to whatever the GOP comes up with.
And while the next Democratic wave may not give the Party of the People 60 senate seats, nothing Trump and the GOP do get through will need 60 votes to roll back.

The back and forth has always been there, but the long term trend to progress has always been there too.

Like a carnival barker touting a two headed cow, once the crowd gets inside and can see the stitches where second head was sewn on, they are harder to fool the next time.

People still are hoping that Trump can deliver on his promises of good solid jobs, with benefits and high wages, and low health insurance premiums, and 4% growth and all the other stuff that Trump promised. In 2020, he'll promise all that crap again, but in 2020, we'll have watched him fail to deliver it for 4 years.

And that will fuel the next wave of progress.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:03 AM   #3
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It's funny to me that years after allowing gays and later tg into the military the doom and gloom predicted by the hard core fright wing religious right about how detrimental these things would be, simply have NOT come to pass. We STILL have THE most lethal fighting force ever assembled. At the end of the day, a soldier is a soldier, is a soldier, and when the shit gets deep, training and unit cohesion kicks in, and it really doesn't matter who has your back, male, female, gay, straight, or somewhere in between. As long as they're covering your six, do you really care what they do, or who they do it with, off duty ???
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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:18 AM   #4
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What is this Transgender thing you speak of? There is no such thing, you die what you are born, nothing changes except the perversion of people cosmetically. You can keep your progression if it means this perversion continues. You will be held accountable for not helping these people who have serious mental issues, caused from sexual abuse as children in most cases.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post

The culture war has been going on a long time, and it won't end any time soon. But the outcome is not in doubt. Some conservatives were gratified to see President Donald Trump bar transgender people from the military. The backlash suggests it will be much like the Native Americans' victory at Little Bighorn -- memorable but ultimately irrelevant.

White House officials saw this announcement as a brilliant political move. "This forces Democrats in Rust Belt states like Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin to take complete ownership of this issue," an anonymous administration official gloated to Axios.

Democrats, however, have put their names on the issue the way the president emblazons "Trump" on buildings. If they feared being out of step with their constituents, House Democrats would not have voted unanimously this month against legislation to stop the Pentagon from paying for hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery.

The proposal was defeated -- thanks to 24 Republicans who sided with them. Even Speaker Paul Ryan "declined to fully endorse" it, reported The Washington Post.

Making the case to cut off funding for transgender treatments is easier than making the case for Trump's decree. "House Republicans were never debating expelling all transgender troops from the military," reported Politico. "'This is like someone told the White House to light a candle on the table and the WH set the whole table on fire,' a senior House Republican aide said in an email."

The political wizards in the White House don't seem to have noticed that voters in one of those Rust Belt states, Wisconsin, elected an openly lesbian U.S. senator, Tammy Baldwin, in 2012. Michigan's Sen. Debbie Stabenow had a 92 percent rating from the Human Rights Campaign, which favors gay rights, when she buried her Republican opponent by 21 points in 2012.

A lot of conservative Republicans are not lining up with Trump, either. Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama -- Alabama! -- said, "You ought to treat everybody fairly, and you ought to give everybody a chance to serve." Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah -- Utah! -- said, "I don't think we should be discriminating against anyone. Transgender people are people, and deserve the best we can do for them."

Those who pushed the ban believe it will resound with Trump voters. But during the campaign, he claimed to be a better friend to the LGBT community than Hillary Clinton. He also criticized North Carolina's bathroom bill and invited Caitlyn Jenner to use any restroom she wanted at Trump Tower. Trump's fans didn't seem to mind.

The truth is that the number of Americans inclined to support Trump on this matter isn't large. A Rasmussen survey in June revealed that only 31 percent of voters opposed the Obama administration's policy of allowing transgender troops.

A poll last year by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 53 percent of Americans -- and 36 percent of Republicans -- oppose laws requiring

transgender people to use the restroom corresponding with their sex at birth. Nearly three-quarters of Americans support laws forbidding job discrimination against gays and transgender people -- and 62 percent of Republicans concur.

The zealots cheering Trump won't help his cause. The right-wing Family Research Council had denounced "President Obama's use of the military to engage in liberal social engineering." But the same argument was used against integrating the military, opening the service academies to women and lifting the ban on gays. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

The FRC had vilified Obama's "wicked" policy and "the forces of darkness that gave birth to it." But overtly religious appeals have lost potency. In 2004, the Pew Research Center notes, only 11 percent of white evangelical voters wanted to legalize same-sex marriage. Now it's 35 percent. Support among Catholics has gone from 36 percent in 2004 to 67 percent today.

Attitudes toward transgender people have grown more liberal even though most Americans don't know many of them, if any. But the parallel with gay rights is too compelling to ignore.

Once the norm has been established that gays should be full and equal members of society, it's hard to rationalize penalizing transgender people. In a free and modern society, the nature of inclusion is to expand, not contract.

Trump may get his way on transgender troops, but only temporarily. In the long run, those who see him as an ally should realize how the culture war will end: They lose.

https://townhall.com/columnists/stev...&newsletterad=
That transgender military thing really got to you, didn't it...LOL...
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Old July 31st, 2017, 01:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
That transgender military thing really got to you, didn't it...LOL...
discrimination and bigotry and intentional ignorance always gets to me.

surely you've noticed that's where my passion (and compassion) lies
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Old July 31st, 2017, 01:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
What is this Transgender thing you speak of? There is no such thing, you die what you are born, nothing changes except the perversion of people cosmetically. You can keep your progression if it means this perversion continues. You will be held accountable for not helping these people who have serious mental issues, caused from sexual abuse as children in most cases.

And if the actual words spoken by Jesus are true, all those things about love and forgiveness and not judging others, when you get to the gates of heaven, he's going to take one look and at you, and say "what the fuck were you thinking????"

I think Gandhi had it right, "I like your Christ, but not your Christians."

"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

...The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time."

--Mohatma Gandhi.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 01:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
And if the actual words spoken by Jesus are true, all those things about love and forgiveness and not judging others, when you get to the gates of heaven, he's going to take one look and at you, and say "what the fuck were you thinking????"

I think Gandhi had it right, "I like your Christ, but not your Christians."

"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

...The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time."

--Mohatma Gandhi.
Yup, love thy neighbor just as long as he is exactly like you. That's their motto.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 03:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
What is this Transgender thing you speak of? There is no such thing, you die what you are born, nothing changes except the perversion of people cosmetically. You can keep your progression if it means this perversion continues. You will be held accountable for not helping these people who have serious mental issues, caused from sexual abuse as children in most cases.
And your research that shows that being transgender is a "serious mental issue cased from sexual abuse as children in most cases" is from where?
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Old July 31st, 2017, 03:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
That transgender military thing really got to you, didn't it...LOL...
It not only "got" Tristan, it also apparently surprised the military leaders that Trump says he consulted.

Not that Trump would lie about anything.
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