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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
They cannot accept the fact that America was founded on white - Christian cultural values. Destroy them and you destroy the nation.
Now, were those founding values white - or Christian? Because, Christian values are Middle Eastern. They didn't get to "white" countries for quite a number of centuries.

You either have "Christian" culture - or white European culture - but you don't have both. If you do, you have a melting pot. Oh, wait a minute! That's what America IS!

Never mind.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Now, were those founding values white - or Christian? Because, Christian values are Middle Eastern. They didn't get to "white" countries for quite a number of centuries.

You either have "Christian" culture - or white European culture - but you don't have both. If you do, you have a melting pot. Oh, wait a minute! That's what America IS!

Never mind.


I love this part: "The ONLY thing we're accomplishing here is to play a blame game and to find new and novel ways to chastise whites for having had the audacity to build a republic that the entire world benefited off of. Surely, IF the non-whites are the equal of the white man in every respect, they could emigrate to a place where they could start from scratch and build a nation."


UN-flippin-believable. The attitudes of *some* are frightening.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 08:06 AM   #23
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I find it odd that so many folks want the "right" to decide who gets to say what and in what way they get to say it. You folks do NOT have a "right" to NOT be offended.
What does your statement have to do with this actual thread?

Confederate statues aren't about "who gets to say what".
The ones put up on public land warrant a public question regarding their continued presence.
Confederate statues are not a first amendment / free speech issue.

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Old October 12th, 2017, 09:46 AM   #24
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Now, were those founding values white - or Christian? Because, Christian values are Middle Eastern. They didn't get to "white" countries for quite a number of centuries.

You either have "Christian" culture - or white European culture - but you don't have both. If you do, you have a melting pot. Oh, wait a minute! That's what America IS!

Never mind.
It's not my fault you failed history.

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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:17 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I fear you are absolutely accurate in that prediction, Gordy.

It makes me glad that I'm old and will probably not be around to see the end of it all.

One says 'probably' because you never know what our dotard-in-chief may manage to accomplish.
I don't actually know either, but yea with the amount of division in this country right now I'm pretty skeptical about this country's longevity.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
I can find points to agree with you on and points to disagree on.

In the first place, America was founded by white Christians for the benefit of their culture. At the same time, the bulk of those white Christians saw themselves as being a people that were to save the world with their missionaries, nation building and compassion.
Take your White man's burden nonsense somewhere else. I don't particularly care to hear it because it ignores the actual realities of slavery, war, genocide, conquest, and exploitation.

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Somewhere along the line, people began to get confused and thought that you could make every race, creed, color, religion (or lack thereof), political persuasion, sexual persuasion coexist on the same piece of real estate. It did not work, has never worked and will never work. Prior to the building of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11) the people sought to be "one" and that didn't turn out so good, did it? Throughout history every time races, cultures, etc. were amalgamated, the civilization perished. Even the Roman Empire fell for the same reasons.
Well, the United States could not really avoid this. If this country was created for "White Christian culture" (which I'm not denying), they still came to a place that was already inhabited, and brought African slaves with them. The United States has been a multicultural nation from its inception -- the problem comes when one group of people insists on imposing their culture/history on everyone else, which is what White society has tended to do.

"White guilt" is nonsense, and doesn't do anything for Black folks. I'm not asking White people to hate themselves, but what they aren't going to do is refuse to acknowledge the fact that a lot of fucked up shit did happen in the past that still affects Black folks collectively to this day. It's the reason why the folks on this site celebrate the Confederacy, but the fact that they fought so that they can continue to enslave human beings isn't even a factor, and if people are offended than they're "sensitive snowflakes."

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The current narrative is that somehow the white people are holding the non-white races in America down and the only way to fix it is to mix the races, cultures, religions, etc. The problem with that is obvious: in doing that, the non-whites want to suppress the white peoples history; they want to erase the positive aspects of white history and completely erase their past. They want whites in general to carry a phony guilt complex to accompany the rewrite of history.
Nobody is trying to suppress or erase "White history" (whatever White history is or means). We just want our history, culture, and contributions to be respected and looked at in a positive way. American culture tends to be Eurocentric, and therefore nobody knows about African history, Indigenous history, etc. Of course this creates resentment because people want to be treated equally, to be regarded equally. Blackness is seen as something to be ashamed of, and Whiteness is the standard of beauty and intelligence. That has nothing to do with "complaining or whining", that's actual violence committed against Black people everyday. In addition, the fact of the matter is that American history is not 100% positive, there were a lot of people who suffered as a result of past actions. The "re-writing" comes in when people downplay these events, and the effects they had on the people involved collectively. These are facts and valid grievances that we have continued to ignore and have allowed to fester. Which is why we're where we're at now.

I definitely agree that multiculturalism doesn't necessarily solve racism, but the fact of the matter is that it is impossible to have a monolithic society. The United States is the sum of its equal parts, and the longer the marginalization continues, the deeper the resentment grows. You can't end racism or prejudice, but you can respect people's differences as long as they are not a threat. The fact of the matter is that White supremacy is a threat to not only anyone who isn't White, but to White folks who actually believe in the country that the US claims to be.

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The fact of the matter is that not all whites are a part of the NEW WORLD ORDER. The fact is America was not founded as a capitalist nation, but one of individual responsibility, free enterprise and unalienable Rights. The real confusion for BOTH sides is the thinking that unalienable Rights belong only to citizens and / or that only citizens are to be afforded unalienable Rights. And so, the overwhelming majority of white people live under this delusion that they must either deny the non-whites their God given Rights in order to reclaim their nation OR we must hand over America in fee simple to the non-whites, taking the blame for all those races that could not assimilate into our culture.
This is all platitude. The US was built on capitalism.

You don't "own" anything either. We all live here and we all make it what it is. We just want you to recognize that.

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IMO, rather than wail and complain with the woe is me, the white man is the enemy, the non-whites would be well served to get those with mega bucks to invest in another country and those non-whites move to a place where they can best promote and advance their culture.
They could do that, and that would probably make sense, but we're not foolish enough to believe that this will be simple. Nobody will let that happen lying down. It would be a very bloody affair and it wouldn't benefit anyone. We saw it with Haiti (were literally bankrupted by the Western powers), and with Black Wall Street. Black self-determination is a threat to White supremacy. Not only this, but Black people, like all groups of people, are not a monolith. Not everyone is going to get behind leaving the US, especially the ones that have money. Separation is not really feasible, and can't work in a situation that is as complex as race in the US.

It is important for non-Whites to love themselves, celebrate their cultures/achievements/histories and continue to assert their humanity in the face of a society that not only does not love them, but considers them to be less than human. We need to put an end to the idea that Whiteness is the standard culture that everyone should ascribe to. I have no interest in being White or ascribing to White definitions, especially since those definitions hurt me. I am myself and I define myself.

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The ONLY thing we're accomplishing here is to play a blame game and to find new and novel ways to chastise whites for having had the audacity to build a republic that the entire world benefited off of. Surely, IF the non-whites are the equal of the white man in every respect, they could emigrate to a place where they could start from scratch and build a nation.

Instead, you choose to complain and blame, keeping your seat on the Titanic. When this nation goes under, I'm sure you will be leading the charge... but to what end? You are going to drown too. From my perspective, that "Eyes on the Prize" mentality has non-whites actually believing that America is that great gold mine and the only thing stopping the non-whites is the white man. They cannot accept the fact that America was founded on white - Christian cultural values. Destroy them and you destroy the nation. It is inevitable, but you won't take a fool's advice until you've been a fool yourself.
We're all going to drown. Which is why the hatred, and fueling that hatred, serves no one.

The fact of the matter is that Black folks are American citizens as well, and have been here since before the country was formed. Black folks can't go back to Africa (Africa isn't a country, where would they go?). They have contributed to the culture of this country just as much as White folks have. They have a right to address their grievances and demand fair treatment, but every time they do, they are met with violence. This only creates more hatred and resentment.

There is a lot of hatred, on both sides. We need to have real conversations about why that is, instead of this paternalistic nonsense about "Black people and their problems" that doesn't recognize the agency of everyone involved.

This will most likely never happen though. So I'll continue to "play the race card" since its the only card I've ever been dealt.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Take your White man's burden nonsense somewhere else. I don't particularly care to hear it because it ignores the actual realities of slavery, war, genocide, conquest, and exploitation.



Well, the United States could not really avoid this. If this country was created for "White Christian culture" (which I'm not denying), they still came to a place that was already inhabited, and brought African slaves with them. The United States has been a multicultural nation from its inception -- the problem comes when one group of people insists on imposing their culture/history on everyone else, which is what White society has tended to do.

"White guilt" is nonsense, and doesn't do anything for Black folks. I'm not asking White people to hate themselves, but what they aren't going to do is refuse to acknowledge the fact that a lot of fucked up shit did happen in the past that still affects Black folks collectively to this day. It's the reason why the folks on this site celebrate the Confederacy, but the fact that they fought so that they can continue to enslave human beings isn't even a factor, and if people are offended than they're "sensitive snowflakes."



Nobody is trying to suppress or erase "White history" (whatever White history is or means). We just want our history, culture, and contributions to be respected and looked at in a positive way. American culture tends to be Eurocentric, and therefore nobody knows about African history, Indigenous history, etc. Of course this creates resentment because people want to be treated equally, to be regarded equally. Blackness is seen as something to be ashamed of, and Whiteness is the standard of beauty and intelligence. That has nothing to do with "complaining or whining", that's actual violence committed against Black people everyday. In addition, the fact of the matter is that American history is not 100% positive, there were a lot of people who suffered as a result of past actions. The "re-writing" comes in when people downplay these events, and the effects they had on the people involved collectively. These are facts and valid grievances that we have continued to ignore and have allowed to fester. Which is why we're where we're at now.

I definitely agree that multiculturalism doesn't necessarily solve racism, but the fact of the matter is that it is impossible to have a monolithic society. The United States is the sum of its equal parts, and the longer the marginalization continues, the deeper the resentment grows. You can't end racism or prejudice, but you can respect people's differences as long as they are not a threat. The fact of the matter is that White supremacy is a threat to not only anyone who isn't White, but to White folks who actually believe in the country that the US claims to be.



This is all platitude. The US was built on capitalism.

You don't "own" anything either. We all live here and we all make it what it is. We just want you to recognize that.



They could do that, and that would probably make sense, but we're not foolish enough to believe that this will be simple. Nobody will let that happen lying down. It would be a very bloody affair and it wouldn't benefit anyone. We saw it with Haiti (were literally bankrupted by the Western powers), and with Black Wall Street. Black self-determination is a threat to White supremacy. Not only this, but Black people, like all groups of people, are not a monolith. Not everyone is going to get behind leaving the US, especially the ones that have money. Separation is not really feasible, and can't work in a situation that is as complex as race in the US.

It is important for non-Whites to love themselves, celebrate their cultures/achievements/histories and continue to assert their humanity in the face of a society that not only does not love them, but considers them to be less than human. We need to put an end to the idea that Whiteness is the standard culture that everyone should ascribe to. I have no interest in being White or ascribing to White definitions, especially since those definitions hurt me. I am myself and I define myself.



We're all going to drown. Which is why the hatred, and fueling that hatred, serves no one.

The fact of the matter is that Black folks are American citizens as well, and have been here since before the country was formed. Black folks can't go back to Africa (Africa isn't a country, where would they go?). They have contributed to the culture of this country just as much as White folks have. They have a right to address their grievances and demand fair treatment, but every time they do, they are met with violence. This only creates more hatred and resentment.

There is a lot of hatred, on both sides. We need to have real conversations about why that is, instead of this paternalistic nonsense about "Black people and their problems" that doesn't recognize the agency of everyone involved.

This will most likely never happen though. So I'll continue to "play the race card" since its the only card I've ever been dealt.
OMG, I respond to you and you write a freaking book. This is my last response to you wherein I even attempt to respond to your never ending harangue:

1) Unless this is your personal board, I will post the counter argument to what you're saying until the admins here tell me not to

2) There were no slaves on the Mayflower, but we did have a lot of indentured servants to go with the slave trade as you call it. Many of those indentured servants were white

3) A lot of "fucked up shit" as you call it has happened all over the world. Blacks single out the whites while ignoring the reality that blacks participated in slavery BEFORE the first white man set foot on this soil AND black still practice slavery today

4) You talk a lot of nonsense. I remember being in a drug store that had a large magazine rack once. There were magazines called Jet, Ebony, Black Stars, Black Hairstyles, etc., etc. Curiously, after finding twelve magazines specific to black people, I asked the store manager to direct me to the magazine specific to white people. I'd have given 50 bucks for a picture of that blank look. You have Black History Month and while you were taking down Confederate statues, Georgia was busy putting up a statue of Martin Luther King, Jr. in our state capitol.

The leftists wail and complain about a so - called separation of church and state, but put up a statue in honor of a self proclaimed preacher.

The Internet has started with racial extremists and have shut down their websites AND YouTube is employing the ADL to rid that site of any pro white videos. Pro-Muslim crap can stay. BTW, all the historical links I left earlier ... that information is BANNED at any educational institution connected to any branch of the government. You cannot discuss it from a white person's view

5) Nothing changed with all your rhetoric. When I agree with you that only whites pose a threat, then you will be satisfied. Black Lives Matter and Antifa aren't problems for you - just the white people

6) Finally, I think you understand that the United States Constitution did not anticipate black people being citizens. American citizens have gone into many a country and built it up, but never been afforded citizenship. Citizenship is NOT a Right. It is a privilege.

Since the 14th Amendment was illegally ratified (a fact I'm sure you're aware of) the black people's "citizenship" is on shaky ground at best. The right is already going after children born in the U.S. whose parents don't have papers. What will you do if they decide to give that whole Amendment a second look?

As I see it, you're confusing unalienable Rights with citizenship. That is what started bringing down the United States. Additionally, there are two major governments operating in the United States: the legal / de jure constitutional Republic as envisioned by the founding fathers AND the other is an illegal / de facto government - a federal / legislative Democracy owned and controlled by elite multinational corporations.

You keep parroting "capitalism" which only acknowledges the illegal government. They are the ones fueling your hatred and intolerance. Maybe one day you'll figure it out: you don't have all the pieces of the puzzle.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #28
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If you don't think Black ppl are Americans then you're my enemy. Plain and simple. Nothing more to debate.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 04:30 AM   #29
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If you don't think Black ppl are Americans then you're my enemy. Plain and simple. Nothing more to debate.
I can think anything I want. But, I hear a lot of this crap about respecting the rule of law.

What good is the law to anybody if the very people it serves do not respect it? If, indeed, the 14th Amendment was put into place by questionable means, then how are we any better off than having outright tyrants at our doors?

I don't know that I'm debating you. We're all over the board on this race issue. I will say this:

Somewhere (IIRC on this board) a poster put up a Bingo Board with the typical excuses whites give to blacks to justify the status quo. You were miffed that I chose not to use those, but to tell you in all honesty what white people REALLY think. Nobody can legitimately accuse me of discrimination since I come down hard on both sides. Ask the hard core anti-immigrant types who try to debate immigration with me.

I think you want to "debate" people to the extent that you prove your case and it goes unchallenged. Whether you consider it right or wrong, this is my own view:

The non-whites have a problem with what they call "white supremacy." The real deal is I live in an area that is always touting the first black this, the all black city council that, and the all black college over there. Then, in the same breath, those same people had a problem with a college that allowed all races to enroll, but had a ban on inter-racial dating and so forth on campus. The liberals and the blacks especially do not respect the white peoples Rights to a Freedom of Religion or of a Freedom of Association.

Just as the people on the right believing that THEY have some claim to jobs in the private market, so do liberal blacks. They demand that private employers hire them, promote them and even give them preferential treatment. Instead of ignoring "racist" businesses, the liberal mindset is to try and pound anyone into the ground that disagrees.

The real issue is that America has no problem with claims of racial supremacy, until it is perceived that it is white supremacy. There is no problem with slavery until whites got involved; no problem with touting racial accomplishments until it's whites doing it; no problem with maintaining statues, memorials, and monuments to our history until we're talking about whites. The funny thing is, although you keep saying it, I've never seen a Confederate memorial touting white supremacy.

Then you don't want any debate that questions the legality of the 14th Amendment. You're proving one of the reasons whites and blacks cannot coexist. No debate is possible once one side or the other makes up their mind not to examine the facts. At the end of the day blacks want the same thing for their people that whites want for theirs. But, the blacks don't want to respect the rights of white people. So, they try to lock the whites out of society... tearing down the white peoples statues, memorials and monuments. Here in Atlanta we have Bounce TV (a black tv station whose motto is TV Done Our Way.) Imagine what would happen if we had a white tv station with a subtle racist motto like that!

I guess we've come to the end of any "debate." Since there isn't any credible resistance to the mass brainwashing, the NEW WORLD ORDER types win and America is headed toward a one race, one religion society that will be easy prey for those who want to enslave the people and impose tyranny.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #30
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What Indian was fighting specifically for the country that the founders envisioned?
What has that to do with anything. Statues and symbols of Indians exist. It doesn't matter why. Also, many Indians fought for the U.S. long before even WW I. Why? Because to some tribes, other enemy Indian tribes were far worse enemies than the U.S.

Now, would you like to give me some BS about the White man wiping out the Indians? In the vast majority of cases, it was disease that killed them. Not the White man.
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