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Old March 6th, 2018, 04:43 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
This thread is hilarious.

This cultural Marxism crap is so counterproductive
I hope we can all realize there are different perspectives, not right and wrongs.

Would you please explain your thought? Can you copy and paste a sentence you disagree with and give your different perspective?

I think women are perhaps more prone to think we should be cooperative and care for each other. Perhaps not the women of privilege nor the young women prepared to be as aggressive and competitive as males, but raising children and being low income can lead to a perspective that we need to work together. This is one reason I think the traditional wife and mother is very valuable. She is good for humanity.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 05:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
I would close the thread if I were you. We're done.
You have increased my awareness of how important history is. Not that long ago the wife was all the industries a family needed. She grew the food and preserved it and made the meals with a wood burning stove. Wood burning stoves required a knowledge of the different woods that burned at different temperatures.

She made the clothes and may have even spun her own thread from the sheep she raised of the flax she grew. She made almost everything a home needed and her skill in needlework was considered so important it was part of her education.

She perhaps made her own soap and candles and washed clothes by hand.

She likely knew herbs and how to use them. She may have been the only person with healing knowledge in the area. And she cared for everyone in the community. These women took turns cooking for the sick and visiting with them and they organized social functions.

A well-bred young lady should know how to play the piano.

I don't think you and Lyzza made good arguments for the value of women. You may argue that was the past and today things are different. The change does not change how amazing these women were and how self-sufficient they were and how important they were to their communities. Yes, things are different today, and we can be as important as we always were.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 05:14 AM   #63
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I am not attacking you, period. You are the one who has taken a holier than thou attitude throughout this thread, and others. You seem to think that because you read some books, and formed an opinion, that none of us are capable of even talking to you because we havent read those books. I am one of a few who have called BS on that. You dont like it and throw another tantrum about how nobody understands, nobody can ask you questions, and silly things like nobody can grasp your simplistic theory.

Again, any and all calls for evidence have gone unanswered, you just throw it back at us and say we are attacking you. No. Having true discussions and arguments doesnt just mean swallowing any opinions someone throws out, you do have to back up your claims and not get upset when others ask you for that evidence.

Keep believing i am attacking you, i dont really care. Keep repeating the same opinions and we will continue to question you on it.....
We used to teach the young to respect their elders. Education for technology has destroyed that. I think the period of child worshipping we have gone through has been very destructive. Youth who think they know it all, are closed to learning. I hope when you gain maturity you remember when you thought you knew it all and did not respect older people for what they know. That memory will help you deal with the disrespectful youths you will encounter.

Clara, when teachers defend disrespectful youths, they become part of the problem, and many parents homeschool their children so that problem doesn't harm their families.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 08:21 AM   #64
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So are you against women in the workforce? If you want me to ask questions about your opinions, fine. Here are more....

Do you think women shouldnt buy houses to keep the cost down?

Do women drive down wages? Should we stay home and give up our freedom and lives because of your crazy opinions?

And what does any of this have to do with all the very real issues all Americans face, with good paying jobs moving overseas, benefits disappearing, an administration trying to take away access to health care to millions, education getting worse, etc

Women getting jobs or buying houses are not causing those things. Omg i cant believe that even needs to be said. Besides, you keep referencing your own difficult childhood, and maybe that has overly colored your ability to think rationally about this....
My question for you is: do you see feminism as just a means to try to equalize the forces within capitalist systems that favor powerful over those without power?

When I mentioned the transition from women's liberation movements to feminism in all it's four waves..if I haven't lost track, the big difference is modern feminism doesn't go beyond identity-based causes they see as similar...specifically, most feminists are allies of the trans movement, BUT they now have nothing to say about warmongering, empire-building and capitalism itself! The radical edge of the womens' movement that hasn't been co-opted by today's system of power would view your concerns about rising up the corporate ladder..buying a house etc. to be local, personal concerns that do little or nothing to work towards an equal more humane future,
because today's feminism won't challenge the system itself!
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Old March 6th, 2018, 08:22 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
This thread is hilarious.

This cultural Marxism crap is so counterproductive
There is actually no such thing as "cultural" marxism! That's a term coined by the libertarian right.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 10:13 AM   #66
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My question for you is: do you see feminism as just a means to try to equalize the forces within capitalist systems that favor powerful over those without power?

When I mentioned the transition from women's liberation movements to feminism in all it's four waves..if I haven't lost track, the big difference is modern feminism doesn't go beyond identity-based causes they see as similar...specifically, most feminists are allies of the trans movement, BUT they now have nothing to say about warmongering, empire-building and capitalism itself! The radical edge of the womens' movement that hasn't been co-opted by today's system of power would view your concerns about rising up the corporate ladder..buying a house etc. to be local, personal concerns that do little or nothing to work towards an equal more humane future,
because today's feminism won't challenge the system itself!
I have to do this. I am quoting a Brit from the History forum
Is American culture fundamentally flawed? - Page 22 - Historum - History Forums

Quote:
For starters, American culture stresses individualism and (unlike British society) egalitarianism. The notion that someone with a great idea can make it big. In Britain, because we recognise the class system and that not all people are given an equal chance, we know that it's better to be dumb and rich rather than poor but brilliant. I don't think that many Americans have accepted this, even though, via popular culture (music, films, books) the "hard luck" story is a common one. The notion that diligence and hard work will result in success is fundamentally flawed. For every one that makes it, many more are crushed by it, since in America it is indeed possible to rise very far very quickly, it's even easier to make the return journey.
I see a mentality there that says the American way is to sell our souls to the beast, striving to succeed materialistically, but what of our families and what of our souls?

The traditional woman made huge contributions to society simply by taking care of everyone because that is what a good woman did. My point is she was, and is, a very valuable person, and Lyzza's arguments hurt the prespection of the value of a woman. As though everything that is good about a woman doesn't count if she doesn't have a master's degree and isn't earning at least $40,000 a year. That isn't even good for the economy because now little gets done unless someone pays for it. And sure isn't a good human value.

Clara, Jesus did not tell us to get college degrees and focus on our personal wealth and power. Limiting our role model to Mother Mary is not best for us, but neither is spitting on her good for us.
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Last edited by Athena; March 6th, 2018 at 10:16 AM.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 10:53 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
You have increased my awareness of how important history is. Not that long ago the wife was all the industries a family needed. She grew the food and preserved it and made the meals with a wood burning stove. Wood burning stoves required a knowledge of the different woods that burned at different temperatures.

She made the clothes and may have even spun her own thread from the sheep she raised of the flax she grew. She made almost everything a home needed and her skill in needlework was considered so important it was part of her education.

She perhaps made her own soap and candles and washed clothes by hand.

She likely knew herbs and how to use them. She may have been the only person with healing knowledge in the area. And she cared for everyone in the community. These women took turns cooking for the sick and visiting with them and they organized social functions.

A well-bred young lady should know how to play the piano.

I don't think you and Lyzza made good arguments for the value of women. You may argue that was the past and today things are different. The change does not change how amazing these women were and how self-sufficient they were and how important they were to their communities. Yes, things are different today, and we can be as important as we always were.
Athena, no one said that these women were not exception, amazing and very valuable. No one. The issue that some of us have is with your tearing down of the advances women have made since then. That is very insulting.

Women today still do many of these things, and still hold down careers while raising children, keeping the house, saving for the future, volunteering, taking care of others, etc.

Maybe not washing clothes by hand, or making our own thread, but we still do sooooooo much. Society is not in worse shape because of the skills of women who work outside of the home, as well as in it.

Its crazy that you keep thinking we are saying something that WE ARE NOT saying. Maybe slow down and understand what you are reading, before going off on another rant about the "good ol' days".......
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Old March 6th, 2018, 10:55 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
My question for you is: do you see feminism as just a means to try to equalize the forces within capitalist systems that favor powerful over those without power?

When I mentioned the transition from women's liberation movements to feminism in all it's four waves..if I haven't lost track, the big difference is modern feminism doesn't go beyond identity-based causes they see as similar...specifically, most feminists are allies of the trans movement, BUT they now have nothing to say about warmongering, empire-building and capitalism itself! The radical edge of the womens' movement that hasn't been co-opted by today's system of power would view your concerns about rising up the corporate ladder..buying a house etc. to be local, personal concerns that do little or nothing to work towards an equal more humane future,
because today's feminism won't challenge the system itself!
Ummmm, i never said any of those things that you are saying about feminism. I dont believe any of that and i certainly dont agree. Perhaps you need to go look around on some feminist websites, and you will see that feminists today are still VERY concerned with all kinds of issues.

I wont keep repeating myself on this. Please do some homework and open your mind.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 10:58 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I have to do this. I am quoting a Brit from the History forum
Is American culture fundamentally flawed? - Page 22 - Historum - History Forums

I see a mentality there that says the American way is to sell our souls to the beast, striving to succeed materialistically, but what of our families and what of our souls?

The traditional woman made huge contributions to society simply by taking care of everyone because that is what a good woman did. My point is she was, and is, a very valuable person, and Lyzza's arguments hurt the prespection of the value of a woman. As though everything that is good about a woman doesn't count if she doesn't have a master's degree and isn't earning at least $40,000 a year. That isn't even good for the economy because now little gets done unless someone pays for it. And sure isn't a good human value.

Clara, Jesus did not tell us to get college degrees and focus on our personal wealth and power. Limiting our role model to Mother Mary is not best for us, but neither is spitting on her good for us.
Everything you said in that part i highlighted is wrong, starting with the way off base attempt to frame my argument as something i am not saying. Usually this is where i would tell one of these guys to try again, but in this case it seems you are totally unable to grasp what anyone else is saying. Please dont try again.

I am so tired of this.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 12:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I hope we can all realize there are different perspectives, not right and wrongs.

Would you please explain your thought? Can you copy and paste a sentence you disagree with and give your different perspective?

I think women are perhaps more prone to think we should be cooperative and care for each other. Perhaps not the women of privilege nor the young women prepared to be as aggressive and competitive as males, but raising children and being low income can lead to a perspective that we need to work together. This is one reason I think the traditional wife and mother is very valuable. She is good for humanity.


I dissagree w/ this movement to separate people into little categories and then pitting them against each other. I dissagree w/ cultural Marxism where instead of the haves and have-nots we now have the oppressor and the oppressed. I dissagree w/ identity politics and intersectionality.


Women is magical and should be treated as such. Mother is life and to not acknowledge that is ridiculous. It pains me to see some women publicly shun women for choosing to be mother over a career. Just as it is frustrating to hear the same wage gap and that tbe modern american women is oppressed. They are not. Everyone has challenges. Life is not easy. If is not supposed to be but one persons difficulties are no more important ar trying just because they were born w/ XX or XY or more melanin or less or whatever.

This crazy identity politics is a major problem. People are not communicating and empathizing w/ one and other. They are competing for victim points and trying to one up each other. It is sad
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