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Old February 24th, 2018, 07:48 AM   #1
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Don't call it women's liberation

A civil right is the right to be a woman. Women's liberation took that away and enslaved us to the beast. Or in the words of Theodore Roosevelt...

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THE PARASITE WOMAN; THE ONLY INDISPENSABLE CITIZEN

Of all species of silliness the silliest is the assertion sometimes made that the woman whose primary life-work is taking care of her home and children is somehow a "parasite woman." It is such a ridiculous inversion of the truth that it ought not to be necessary even to allude to it. Nevertheless, it is acted upon by a large number of selfish, brutal, or thoughtless men, and it is screamed about by a number of foolish women. Therefore a word of common sense on the matter may not be out of place.

There are men so selfish, so short-sighted, or so brutal, that they speak and act as if the the fact of the man's earning money for his wife and children, while the woman bears the children, rears them, and takes care of the house for them and for the man, somehow entitles the man to be known as the head of the family, instead of a partner on equal terms with his wife. and entitles him to the exclusive right to dispose of it primarily in his own interest.

There are professional feminist and so-called women's-rights women who, curiously enough, seem to accept so much of this male attitude as implies that the partner who earns the money is the superior partner and that therefore the woman, who is physically weaker than the man, should accept as her primary duty the rivalling of him in the money-making business in which he will normally do better than she will; and they stigmatize as parasites the women who do the one great and all-essential work, without which no other activity by either sex amounts to anything.
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Old February 24th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #2
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Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

WTF?!
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Old February 24th, 2018, 08:49 PM   #3
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Why would anyone assume that Theodore Roosevelt would have anything good to say about women's liberation, or any liberation movement for that matter? Teddy's whole game was about proving himself as man...and fearing his life as career politician wasn't manly enough, he bought some land in the Dakota Territory(after ethnic cleansing of the last series of Indian Wars) and put his life at risk..considering his poor health, just to ride a horse and learn how to rope cattle like real cowboys do, and then there were his hunting expeditions in Africa and Asia..to get pictures posing besides the carcasses of now-endangered species...just sayin, the last thing T. Roosevelt would want was women demanding the vote, equal power and "emasculating" men...real men!

Nothing to worry about though! It wasn't Teddy who ended the women's liberation movement; that all came along in the 2nd wave, when "feminists" like CIA asset - Gloria Steinem, detached the cause of women from being regarded as a liberation movement, and now even multimillionaire and billionaire women can be feminists and part of the cause today...feel better now?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 04:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Why would anyone assume that Theodore Roosevelt would have anything good to say about women's liberation, or any liberation movement for that matter? Teddy's whole game was about proving himself as man...and fearing his life as career politician wasn't manly enough, he bought some land in the Dakota Territory(after ethnic cleansing of the last series of Indian Wars) and put his life at risk..considering his poor health, just to ride a horse and learn how to rope cattle like real cowboys do, and then there were his hunting expeditions in Africa and Asia..to get pictures posing besides the carcasses of now-endangered species...just sayin, the last thing T. Roosevelt would want was women demanding the vote, equal power and "emasculating" men...real men!

Nothing to worry about though! It wasn't Teddy who ended the women's liberation movement; that all came along in the 2nd wave, when "feminists" like CIA asset - Gloria Steinem, detached the cause of women from being regarded as a liberation movement, and now even multimillionaire and billionaire women can be feminists and part of the cause today...feel better now?
First paragraph: got it.

Second paragraph: WTF?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 06:33 AM   #5
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OKAY--I'm adding a little humor here. Don't mean to hijack the topic but.....

The Mystery of the Basket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQgDwA0BNU
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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Why would anyone assume that Theodore Roosevelt would have anything good to say about women's liberation, or any liberation movement for that matter? Teddy's whole game was about proving himself as man...and fearing his life as career politician wasn't manly enough, he bought some land in the Dakota Territory(after ethnic cleansing of the last series of Indian Wars) and put his life at risk..considering his poor health, just to ride a horse and learn how to rope cattle like real cowboys do, and then there were his hunting expeditions in Africa and Asia..to get pictures posing besides the carcasses of now-endangered species...just sayin, the last thing T. Roosevelt would want was women demanding the vote, equal power and "emasculating" men...real men!

Nothing to worry about though! It wasn't Teddy who ended the women's liberation movement; that all came along in the 2nd wave, when "feminists" like CIA asset - Gloria Steinem, detached the cause of women from being regarded as a liberation movement, and now even multimillionaire and billionaire women can be feminists and part of the cause today...feel better now?
Well, that was the first post you made that really disappointed me. Teddy was in favor of women having the vote.

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Theodore Roosevelt and Women's Suffrage | American Experience | Official Site | PBS
Nineteen-twelve was when Theodore Roosevelt came out for women's suffrage and became the great champion of women's rights. And I think one of the least understood, but more important aspects, of Theodore Roosevelt is that he was the great male feminist of his period in terms of the important office holders and politicians. But that goes back to the beginning.
Today we see his hunting as wrong, but I don't think we should judge people in the past with our changed consciousness. I remember my mother wanting a diamond ring and mink coat. No one wears real furs today because we consider it wrong to kill animals for their fur. Nothing is wrong with judging what in the past did as wrong, but judging their character with our changed consciousness is wrong.

Why would you criticize him for his desire to push himself, instead of admiring him for that? And his experience with horses led to having a cavalry needed during the Spanish-Americans war.

Quote:
Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders
Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders
Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders July 1, 1898. Before becoming President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy. He resigned in 1898 to organize the Rough Riders, the first voluntary cavalry in the Spanish-American War. The U.S. was fighting against Spain over Spain's ...
We can all argue the glass is half empty or half. In the case of the Roosevelt's I can see some wrongs but also some important rights, and I am not so sure you or I could do any better? They were progressive leaders for their time.
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Last edited by Athena; February 25th, 2018 at 07:12 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lyzza View Post
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

WTF?!
Do you know what a cohort is? In sociology a cohort means, a group of persons sharing a particular statistical or demographic characteristic: the cohort of all children born in 1980.

Your cohort experienced life very differently from my cohort. I came of age before women were liberated and one of the best parts or our lives was reading the monthly Women's Day magazine and getting ideas for making our homes nicer and cooking enjoyable food. Back in the day, this was not a bad thing, but something of honor and pride. Another wonderful joy was having coffee with a friend at the kitchen table. Our lives revolved around human values, the happiness and well being of our families and our communities. I think this was very good for humanity.

I didn't see myself as "just a housewife", but as doing the most important thing of all, raising my children. The very old books on my shelves speak of how important this is. No institution can do for our children what the parents can do for them. And the generation following my generation experienced a national youth crisis, and now we speak of arming our teachers and a drug epidemic. I hope we can look at the possible causes of this all this pain and suffering and ask if things could be better.

I saw myself as doing the most important thing a woman can do, being a mother and homemaker, and also important to the community as a volunteer. As a volunteer on committees, I held important decision making power. As a school volunteer and scout leader, I had a chance help children, and as a volunteer for senior services I gave seniors the help they needed. I have testified at public hearings at the city, county and state level and took an important part in changing state law about grandparents rights, and also played a major role in getting programs for homeless people started.

I now use the internet to raise consciousness of my understanding of the value of women as Theodore Roosevelt understood their value, and to say I think the devaluation of women of which Theodore Roosevelt wrote, is a terrible thing. I think as a woman I play a more important role in the welfare of humanity than most men play. I am disturbed that younger cohorts have nothing say other than WTF or to argue against what I am saying having any value and give me a list of very depressing statements assuming only ugliness. Our whole nation has been turned against itself and what good will come from this very negative consciousness?

I hope this discussion continues and that the resistance to what I am saying becomes understanding.
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Last edited by Athena; February 25th, 2018 at 07:52 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 08:18 AM   #8
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He was a lot of different things

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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
A civil right is the right to be a woman. Women's liberation took that away and enslaved us to the beast. Or in the words of Theodore Roosevelt...
TR was a complicated person. & I don't know offhand what his beliefs were in terms of suffrage for women. He was very concerned about the stamina & manliness of elite young men (you can blame him for football @ the college level, which went on to professional football & the various disasters & poor character in sports popular culture, as well as a set of scandals @ various powerhouse football [basketball, etc.] schools that continue to this day - along with the long-term physical & brain damage that players suffer, especially if they continue playing into adulthood.)

Because of his poor health - asthma - he was forever strenuously overachieving in the physical realm - & he seemed to take that stance as the preferred stance for Western Civ., & specifically for the US in the World. He was quite aggressive in foreign relations, his tenure as Asst. Secretary of the Navy allowed him to build up the US Navy & send it around the World.

& he was a conservationist, @ least as far as natural flora & fauna & wilderness went. & a writer & reader & linguist of note.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 08:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
OKAY--I'm adding a little humor here. Don't mean to hijack the topic but.....

The Mystery of the Basket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQgDwA0BNU
Interesting you posted that. Did you watch the following youtube about how hypocritical teachers are to pretend like they like children and what children do when they really don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDhhAzqwORc

Can we be aware of the cynicism (an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest) of our times and how is it like a pollution destroying all that is good? I am reminded of a teacher who had to entertain a group of children and chose to do so by taking them to the library, where I was volunteering, and reading a book to them. He must have felt my intense disapproval as he read one socially inappropriate sentence after another because he began explaining to the children that the book was funny because it is socially inappropriate and they should not think this is the way to act. I was horrified that book was even in the library.

Clara, this is why I say education has become harmful. Teachers blame the problems on parents who "don't care", but really how much can a working mother do? Parents are homeschooling their children when they can because they don't want their children to have the bad influences of public education. There is a huge disconnect between people and this is harmful.

How do we apply the Mystery of the Basket to the subject of this thread, which is the value of a woman? In my old books, women are advised to be good homemakers and mothers and to free their husbands to focus on earning a living for the family. Who did the laundry and cleaned the house was not an issue because she wasn't committed to a job as the man was. The home and family was her job.

We have experienced a change and expect everyone to instantly understand the new roles for men and women. At least community colleges have classes helping women adjust to their changed role in society. What have we done to help men adjust to this change? Also, does liberation mean we have to accept to our new roles in society? We do not have a right be free to be women, and children do not have a right to full-time mothers? Who is really benefiting from this change Clara? Isn't everyone being enslaved to the beast at a time when we no longer have a labor intense economy? We do not need our large workforce, and yet we have destroyed the value of women who tend to the wellbeing of their families and communities, while government and the bankers need more and more money. Do you understand our high tech military does not need our sons as in wars past, but it needs our money!

Last edited by Athena; February 25th, 2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 08:49 AM   #10
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Well, that was the first post you made that really disappointed me. Teddy was in favor of women having the vote.



Today we see his hunting as wrong, but I don't think we should judge people in the past with our changed consciousness. I remember my mother wanting a diamond ring and mink coat. No one wears real furs today because we consider it wrong to kill animals for their fur. Nothing is wrong with judging what in the past did as wrong, but judging their character with our changed consciousness is wrong.

Why would you criticize him for his desire to push himself, instead of admiring him for that? And his experience with horses led to having a cavalry needed during the Spanish-Americans war.
Are you aware the Spanish American War was a contrived war of aggression by the United States to establish itself as the colonial empire of the rest of the Americas in the decline of Spain, while establishing foreign colonies also by taking the Philippines as a colonial possession/instead of the independence promised Filipino resistance fighters who welcomed the Americans in their battle to throw off Spanish colonialism. A doublecross that coincided with the creation of what are now called "counter-insurgency tactics," and killed millions of civilians for supporting the resistance. What was that about horses?
Quote:
We can all argue the glass is half empty or half. In the case of the Roosevelt's I can see some wrongs but also some important rights, and I am not so sure you or I could do any better? They were progressive leaders for their time.
Noted! But perhaps TR's support for the Women's Suffrage Movement got buried in the pages of history because many of his speeches...like that patronizing offering in the leadoff paragraph, also show he felt men had the right to determine the extent and limits of the power of women: the vote, freedom from spousal abuse...but, beyond that, I wouldn't put him in the same boat as the first male advocates of the rights of women, like philosopher- John Stuart Mill (Utilitarianism) and the Scottish political philosopher- William Godwin...who may be most known best in posterity for being the husband of Mary Wollstencraft..the first recognized female scholar and author of "The Rights of Women," and ofcourse father of Mary Shelly...most remembered as the author of Frankenstein.

They lived a century earlier than Ted, and considering Roosevelt's ambitions to establish his Progressives as a third party that could dislodge the Dems and Repubs, was Roosevelt's support for women's suffrage and a range of other working class causes based on personal conviction/or political ambitions? He may have been doing little more than expecting a winfall of female voters if he could become the man who moved the cause forward in a similar way that his taking up the cause of coal miners and other workers would win votes from blue collar workers?

The reason why it's hard to track a clear path in Roosevelt's rhetoric is his contradictions...which may come from being a politician/not a philosopher like Mill or Godwin, and was making most of his decisions from the vantage point of establishing his party and becoming president.
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