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Old February 25th, 2018, 12:29 PM   #11
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Do you not mean an ideal leader? Is this not the gist of the original point?
Well, my responses are leaning that way, but that was not my original intent and your question startles me! In the thread about ideal women, I don't think we were thinking in terms of women having power and leadership. For sure I was thinking of women as caregivers whose value is the wellbeing of the family and community.

I am very sexist. I am not sure if this realistic or just a prejudice?

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the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world
phrase of hand
1.
proverb
the person who raises a child determines the character of that child and so influences the type of society that the next generation will create.
I believe women have great power but it is different from the power of men.

If being a valueable woman means being a caregiver, then what is it that makes a man valuable?

Last edited by Athena; February 25th, 2018 at 12:32 PM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 12:45 PM   #12
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Well, my responses are leaning that way, but that was not my original intent and your question startles me! In the thread about ideal women, I don't think we were thinking in terms of women having power and leadership. For sure I was thinking of women as caregivers whose value is the wellbeing of the family and community.

I am very sexist. I am not sure if this realistic or just a prejudice?



I believe women have great power but it is different from the power of men.

If being a valueable woman means being a caregiver, then what is it that makes a man valuable?
My apologies. I didn't understand the context like i thought i did.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 12:51 PM   #13
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If being a valueable woman means being a caregiver, then what is it that makes a man valuable?
Hmmm...

All the women in my life gave me the impression of valuing in men: strength, intelligence and rationality, looks, individualism, stability, emotional aloofness, providing, sacrificing, humor, honesty, character, independence in all its forms and ect... In no certain order.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #14
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The ideal man ..... is a monster,........ who can restrain himself.
Been reading Peterson lately?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 01:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Well, my responses are leaning that way, but that was not my original intent and your question startles me! In the thread about ideal women, I don't think we were thinking in terms of women having power and leadership. For sure I was thinking of women as caregivers whose value is the wellbeing of the family and community.

I am very sexist. I am not sure if this realistic or just a prejudice?



I believe women have great power but it is different from the power of men.

If being a valueable woman means being a caregiver, then what is it that makes a man valuable?
Women are powerful.

How do you only equate being a valuable woman with being a caregiver?
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Old February 26th, 2018, 11:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Hmmm...

All the women in my life gave me the impression of valuing in men: strength, intelligence and rationality, looks, individualism, stability, emotional aloofness, providing, sacrificing, humor, honesty, character, independence in all its forms and ect... In no certain order.
That is a whole lot better than saying all a woman wants is money.

Question: is emotional aloofness compatible with being sensitive? The books Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus talk of a mismatch between men and women. Also, the business world has a different vocabulary and value system than the domestic world. Can people be equally good at both?

I think Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun had some good characteristics and ideas, but I am quite sure I would not want to be married to either of them.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 11:26 AM   #17
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Women are powerful.

How do you only equate being a valuable woman with being a caregiver?
That is not the only equation I make, but I defend the value of the caregiver because I believe the people who take this role in life, need to be praised and in general we need to value them much more than we do.

Notice I said the people who take the caregiver role, because it seems to me we do not value nurturing men any more than we value nurturing women? I think we tend to be insulting to them and often consider them as weak?
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Old February 26th, 2018, 12:25 PM   #18
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Thank you for the thanks. As expected I really feel like I am taking a beating. People do not take kindly to the argument that there is something good about our traditional values and the old family order. Nothing has gotten me into worse trouble on the internet than saying there was good in the traditions that got us this far. I know things were not perfect, but I am not sure if things are getting or worse or better? I think we are in a transition that means at the moment things are worse. But a man punishing a stroller down the bike path is a hopeful sign that things are getting better. I think we need to be aware of our humanness and think about what will make our lives the best they can be. I wish these discussions were more friendly. Right now I am hurting and think I will go relax in a hot tub and see if things start looking better. I really needed your thank you, thank you.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 12:31 PM   #19
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That is not the only equation I make, but I defend the value of the caregiver because I believe the people who take this role in life, need to be praised and in general we need to value them much more than we do.

Notice I said the people who take the caregiver role, because it seems to me we do not value nurturing men any more than we value nurturing women? I think we tend to be insulting to them and often consider them as weak?
Do people here consider caregivers as weak?
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Old February 26th, 2018, 04:58 PM   #20
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Do people here consider caregivers as weak?
I would certainly hope not.

Far more often than not, it is women who are caregivers to family members or to clients/patients/etc. I heard a story about at home caregivers who tend to the elderly or disabled. They work hard days, doing so much for the people in their care, and they get paid $8/hour! I wanted to vomit when i heard that.
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