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Old February 26th, 2018, 05:10 PM   #21
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I would certainly hope not.

Far more often than not, it is women who are caregivers to family members or to clients/patients/etc. I heard a story about at home caregivers who tend to the elderly or disabled. They work hard days, doing so much for the people in their care, and they get paid $8/hour! I wanted to vomit when i heard that.
We play a game to divvy up what the society produces, and the game has gotten out of hand, when you have caregivers, who are absolutely vital, getting $8/hr, while others are making $8000/hr.

It's time for a change...
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Old February 26th, 2018, 05:33 PM   #22
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I would certainly hope not.

Far more often than not, it is women who are caregivers to family members or to clients/patients/etc. I heard a story about at home caregivers who tend to the elderly or disabled. They work hard days, doing so much for the people in their care, and they get paid $8/hour! I wanted to vomit when i heard that.
I hear ya. But men also make up a substantial figure in taking on the role of caregiver.
I.e. What about a guy being a full time worker with lots of over time, also being a full time care giver to his wife with no support from the government or any community and a very, very limited help from a family member. In other words, there is no respite at all and never has been for 27 years!
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Old February 26th, 2018, 05:39 PM   #23
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I hear ya. But men also make up a substantial figure in taking on the role of caregiver.
I.e. What about a guy being a full time worker with lots of over time, also being a full time care giver to his wife with no support from the government or any community and a very, very limited help from a family member. In other words, there is no respite at all and never has been for 27 years!
There is a couple i went to high school with, and they got married. They both had jobs, but she made more money than he did, so when they started having children he stopped working and became a stay-at-home dad. He said he loves being able to take care of their kids, and getting the opportunity to be with them, and she can continue her career and support the family financially.

The real problem comes from other people, who have their old gender roles in mind when they give him crap about not being the "bread winner". I told him to not worry about others, and just enjoy being a full time dad, but he said it is really getting to him.

Apparently these old fashioned folks have no problem if it was the other way around, but that is bullshit. It shouldnt matter who is taking care of the kids. And with people in society shoving unrealistic gender roles at him, it is affecting his quality of life. So unfair.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 05:47 PM   #24
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There is a couple i went to high school with, and they got married. They both had jobs, but she made more money than he did, so when they started having children he stopped working and became a stay-at-home dad. He said he loves being able to take care of their kids, and getting the opportunity to be with them, and she can continue her career and support the family financially.

The real problem comes from other people, who have their old gender roles in mind when they give him crap about not being the "bread winner". I told him to not worry about others, and just enjoy being a full time dad, but he said it is really getting to him.

Apparently these old fashioned folks have no problem if it was the other way around, but that is bullshit. It shouldnt matter who is taking care of the kids. And with people in society shoving unrealistic gender roles at him, it is affecting his quality of life. So unfair.
What i learned, life is unfair. What doesn't break a person only makes them stronger.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 05:50 PM   #25
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What i learned, life is unfair. What doesn't break a person only makes them stronger.
Well, that is true i guess....

However, the bigger point is these old gender roles are toxic, and we as humans need to do better.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 06:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lyzza View Post
There is a couple i went to high school with, and they got married. They both had jobs, but she made more money than he did, so when they started having children he stopped working and became a stay-at-home dad. He said he loves being able to take care of their kids, and getting the opportunity to be with them, and she can continue her career and support the family financially.

The real problem comes from other people, who have their old gender roles in mind when they give him crap about not being the "bread winner". I told him to not worry about others, and just enjoy being a full time dad, but he said it is really getting to him.

Apparently these old fashioned folks have no problem if it was the other way around, but that is bullshit. It shouldnt matter who is taking care of the kids. And with people in society shoving unrealistic gender roles at him, it is affecting his quality of life. So unfair.
Both Mrs. RNG, as we agreed, and the former Miss RNG as she and her husband agreed, decide to stay home with the kids.

Both of them reported that other women, working women were sort of snippy towards them. Was it jealousy, guilt or whatever.

They often made remarks about watching daytime TV while they popped chocolates. But in fact they both worked hard at helping the kids as well as keeping an excellent house.

To tell the truth, the quality of the meals was better too.

They both, at some point decided that the kids were at a stage where them being home wasn't that much of an advantage, went back to work and damn, I had to start doing my share of the cooking and cleaning.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 06:19 PM   #27
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Both Mrs. RNG, as we agreed, and the former Miss RNG as she and her husband agreed, decide to stay home with the kids.

Both of them reported that other women, working women were sort of snippy towards them. Was it jealousy, guilt or whatever.

They often made remarks about watching daytime TV while they popped chocolates. But in fact they both worked hard at helping the kids as well as keeping an excellent house.

To tell the truth, the quality of the meals was better too.

They both, at some point decided that the kids were at a stage where them being home wasn't that much of an advantage, went back to work and damn, I had to start doing my share of the cooking and cleaning.
Both of my parents worked, and would switch off cooking dinner depending on who was home. When it was my dad, it was stuff like fish sticks and tater tots! My mom would make homemade lasagna or chicken cacciatore.
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Old February 26th, 2018, 06:20 PM   #28
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Both of my parents worked, and would switch off cooking dinner depending on who was home. When it was my dad, it was stuff like fish sticks and tater tots! My mom would make homemade lasagna or chicken cacciatore.
Mrs. RNG was a dietitian. No way was I getting away with that kind of stuff.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 04:42 AM   #29
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Do you not mean an ideal leader? Is this not the gist of the original point?
No my original thought was what is the ideal man. The original thought comes from Greek philosophy and what I know of the importance of mythology and heroes and culture. Not that long ago, a man would not be walking a child in a stroller down a bike path, and yes being a caregiver has been associated with being weak and unmanly. But at last men are pitching in and helping out with house chores and caring for children, and this makes them very attractive to some women today, but maybe not all women? I don't know how well men are reacting to this change? For centuries there was an objection to Jesus being effeminate, and he was not a role model for men. Christianity was about the fear of a jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing God, not about a loving and forgiven Jesus, a martyr of goodness sake. As our lives got easier, Jesus became the more important focus of Christianity.

I have felt attacked for saying the traditional woman is a very valuable member of society, and I wonder if men are attacking each other for doing women's work? Where are we in this change. Are we liberated or have we just changed the demands on each other? How are we feeling about the changes and what are the new ideals for men and women?
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Old February 27th, 2018, 04:48 AM   #30
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What i learned, life is unfair. What doesn't break a person only makes them stronger.
I was broken for many years. We now are aware of stress does to a person and it can be very destructive and actually change us physically and lead to early death. Our reality is changed and our science has improved. It is my hope as we gain knowledge and awareness and talk about all this stuff, we will manifest a new golden age.

What exactly is our human nature? If a man holds a baby his hormones are changed, just as is so for women, and this change in hormones results changed behaviors.
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