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Old February 27th, 2018, 06:48 AM   #31
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Well, that is true i guess....

However, the bigger point is these old gender roles are toxic, and we as humans need to do better.


Toxic. YES--you are so right and I'm glad you posted about your friends who changed roles.
We had this happen in our family. Our youngest son married a wonderful young lady who is a history professor at the U of Wy in Laramie. BEFORE they married they agreed that HER JOB would be their primary source of income and benefits and that Eric (our son) would take care of the house, yard, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Eric worked part-time until the baby came along.
Then he became Mr. Mom. It's an ideal arrangement and when Sam (our grandson) goes to school, Eric can start working again.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 10:09 AM   #32
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Toxic. YES--you are so right and I'm glad you posted about your friends who changed roles.
We had this happen in our family. Our youngest son married a wonderful young lady who is a history professor at the U of Wy in Laramie. BEFORE they married they agreed that HER JOB would be their primary source of income and benefits and that Eric (our son) would take care of the house, yard, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Eric worked part-time until the baby came along.
Then he became Mr. Mom. It's an ideal arrangement and when Sam (our grandson) goes to school, Eric can start working again.

Isn't that what Lyzza is calling a toxic relationship, only it is your son who is the victim instead of his wife? He will face all the problems a woman faces and will he be protected by alimony if things don't go well?
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Old February 27th, 2018, 10:16 AM   #33
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I hear ya. But men also make up a substantial figure in taking on the role of caregiver.
I.e. What about a guy being a full time worker with lots of over time, also being a full time care giver to his wife with no support from the government or any community and a very, very limited help from a family member. In other words, there is no respite at all and never has been for 27 years!
You might want to consider moving to a different state?


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https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/...home-care.html
Funds for Medicaid come from both the federal government and the individual state governments and as such, the rules governing Medicaid also come from two sources. The federal government sets certain standards but gives the states considerable flexibility with regards to the services they provide. This is especially true in the area of home care.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 11:30 AM   #34
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Isn't that what Lyzza is calling a toxic relationship, only it is your son who is the victim instead of his wife? He will face all the problems a woman faces and will he be protected by alimony if things don't go well?
No. What i said was toxic is this holding onto absurd gender roles that causes problems for women and men.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 11:39 AM   #35
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Isn't that what Lyzza is calling a toxic relationship, only it is your son who is the victim instead of his wife? He will face all the problems a woman faces and will he be protected by alimony if things don't go well?


No, Athena. Lyzza (and she can correct me if I'm wrong) was speaking about the "OLD gender roles". I think Lyzza is referring to YOUR statements.

Our son has not faced any gender role issues or problems at all--and in fact, most people their age think it's a great idea.

Why is it that, for so many people, seeing a man caring for his child is still a surprise? This attitude perpetuates a whole range of stereotypes about men, fathers, and families that continue to haunt American culture in powerful ways.

It reinforces the notion of women as the nurturer and men as the breadwinner and suggests that for men to be caring and nurturing they have to put on a persona other than just simply being a dad. Honestly, I am sick of this conversation. It's absurd.
I don't like stereotyping or the generalizations. I don't like the little boxes.
PEOPLE can be and SHOULD be what they WANT to be--what works best for them--caregivers or breadwinners--OR BOTH.

The American family has changed. AND it doesn't NEED to be defined. We are seeing single-parent households, same-sex households, extended family homes, homelessness, adoptive families and more. We are seeing two men raise little girls and two women raising little boys. Grandparents are raising their grandchildren.
Regardless of the shape, size, and scope of the family — our children need mentors and role models, love and attention, support and guidance, tenderness and firmness, laughter and encouragement, and protection. None of this is the sole province of a mother or a father--a man or a woman.
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Old February 27th, 2018, 11:47 AM   #36
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No. What i said was toxic is this holding onto absurd gender roles that causes problems for women and men.
Why do people insist on hanging on to these outdated gender roles ?? More importantly WHY do people feel the need, muchless think they have to right, to belittle others for their life choices ?? If you are inclined toward the more traditional roles, that's fine, there are plenty of people that think similar. But if you have or prefer another arrangement then what's the harm ??

I WISH any of my exes had earned more than I do, or even gotten close !! Yet I've known three women that have wound up divorced because they earned more than their hubby. How stupid is that ??

Of course I grew up with a mom that could design and build things and raced sport cars in the early 1960s.
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Old February 28th, 2018, 04:26 AM   #37
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Men and women are different. Pretending this isn’t true makes people unhappy.
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Old February 28th, 2018, 08:34 AM   #38
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No. What i said was toxic is this holding onto absurd gender roles that causes problems for women and men.
You might to expand on what you think and your attacks on the idea that a woman who stays home to care for her family is a very valuable woman. I think you have been arguing against the value of this person who stays home to care for the family and you are trapped in a corner when this person is a man.

It matters not if the man or woman stays home to care for the family. The person who does this is in a very bad position and the position is made even worse when we label the stay at home women, "just a housewife" and deny the value of this person and deny this person any protection.

The person who stays at home, is dependent on the person who works for a living, and the dependent person is far more apt to be the victim, no matter what gender this person is. The person who stays at home will not be competitive for good paying jobs because in our technological society hiring is done by merit. Merit is gained through recent education and specific work experience. A college education and the work experience of a janitor does not qualify a person for the job requiring the education. To be competitive that job must relate to the education and both the education and work experience must be recent.

So how long does the person who agrees to stay home and take care of the family, stay out of the workforce? Now how long are we going to give this person to become competitive for jobs? How will this person be supported during that time? Will this person get the college education needed for a career? Now, how old is this person? Has this person started to have physical problems? It is amazing how many jobs require physical ability and how many employers discriminate against people with physical problems. And age discrimination is a huge problem! The person who delays a career is at a huge disvantage, and is there any compensation for this? Will this person complete an education and have enough time in a career job to raise up in the career and to earn retirement benefits?

If a divorce and a recession come at the same time, this person is screwed! While the person who has always worked will be competitive for jobs, and everyone recognizes this person's value, no one will recognize the value of the person who stayed at home. If in desperation for an income, this person goes from being "just a Housewife" to a janitor, any education this person has won't matter, because potential employers will see a janitor, not a person of high value. Come on, our reality denies the value of the person who stays home to take care of the family, and I have felt attacked for arguing the person who stays home is very valuable.

Someone needs to care for the children, and the person who is supported by the man or woman who stays home and does everything a "homemaker" does has a huge benefit of being supported. Arguing against this because traditionally the person who stays home is the woman, is not a helpful argument for the man or woman who is the one to care for the family.
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Old February 28th, 2018, 08:50 AM   #39
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Carter and Obama are thinking men slow to make decisions and resistant to taking military action. Bush and Trump are proud to make snap decisions without too much thinking and advance military power.

I see you make snap decisions.
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Old February 28th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #40
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Men and women are different. Pretending this isn’t true makes people unhappy.
Yes, we are different and I believe things go much better when we accept our differences and work together. However, this difference does not mean the woman can not be a successful nuclear physicist, but we will start talking about the flavors of nuclear particles when women are in charge of the talk. Women are more apt to use domestic terms and think of their projects as their children. Women bring a very valuable perspective to all areas of human thought, and humanity has been held back for thousands of years because women were not given full rights to participate.

Woman have been very important to the space program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margar...ton_(scientist)

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How three black women helped send John Glenn into orbit | Film | The ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../blac...hn-glenn-space...
Dec 10, 2016 - “If a girl, of whatever age or ethnicity, is inclined toward science, technology engineering and math, they should be encouraged and that passion should be ... He was known to have disliked The Right Stuff, the film of Tom Wolfe's account of the early days of the space programme that depicted him, he felt, as ...
One of the most important women in history was killed a Christian mob, and that was the beginning the Dark Age that held western civilization back hundreds of years.

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Hypatia - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia
Hypatia (born c. 350–370; died 415 AD) was a Hellenistic Neoplatonist philosopher, astronomer, and mathematician, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, then part of the Eastern Roman Empire. She was the head of the Neoplatonic school at Alexandria, where she taught philosophy and astronomy. She is the first female ...
‎Parabalani · ‎Orestes · ‎Hypatia (disambiguation) · ‎Hypatia (crater)
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