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Old January 2nd, 2016, 03:54 PM   #91
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 04:20 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by freemind View Post
How about we approach things from this angle. YOU tell ME how many Jews died in the holocaust. .
These are the figures compiled by German historian Wolfgang Benz from the various chapters of the study Dimensionen des Völkermords:

German Reich: 160,000 to 165,000

Austria: 65,459

Luxembourg: 1,200

France ("including foreign nationals"): 76,134

Belgium ("including foreign nationals"): 28, 518

Netherlands: 102,000

Denmark: 116

Norway: 758

Italy: 6,513

Albania: 591 ("deportees")

Greece: 59,185

Bulgaria (deported from Bulgarian-occupied areas): 11,393

Yugoslavia: 60,000 to 65,000

Hungary: 550,000

Czechoslovakia ("Reich Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia" plus Slovakia): 143,000

Romania: 211,214

Poland: 2,700,000

Soviet Union: 2,100,000

Total: 6,276,081 to 6,286,081
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 05:50 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
These are the figures compiled by German historian Wolfgang Benz from the various chapters of the study Dimensionen des Völkermords:

German Reich: 160,000 to 165,000

Austria: 65,459

Luxembourg: 1,200

France ("including foreign nationals"): 76,134

Belgium ("including foreign nationals"): 28, 518

Netherlands: 102,000

Denmark: 116

Norway: 758

Italy: 6,513

Albania: 591 ("deportees")

Greece: 59,185

Bulgaria (deported from Bulgarian-occupied areas): 11,393

Yugoslavia: 60,000 to 65,000

Hungary: 550,000

Czechoslovakia ("Reich Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia" plus Slovakia): 143,000

Romania: 211,214

Poland: 2,700,000

Soviet Union: 2,100,000

Total: 6,276,081 to 6,286,081
You seem to quote a German study. But there is a reason why it is illegal to question the accepted version of the holocaust in Germany. Because is is bullshit. I have seen estimates from the Red Cross that said the number was 271,000. I also remember running across a figure that was supposedly more thoroughly researched that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) I have also heard a number of 20 million. Which is bullshit to the extreme.

If you go fishing around on the internet, you can come up with all types of figures. (Which no doubt is mostly history written by the victors) But in my thread that is now closed down to debate, I showed a bunch of newspaper articles from before WW II that talked about something bad happening to 6 million Jews. I just cant be so gullible as to believe the same bullshit number in regards to the holocaust.

I tried to tell you that there were no gas chambers. But that went nowhere. I tried to tell you that Germany deported most of its Jews to Palestine under the Haavara agreement. But that went nowhere. I tried to show you a plaque that they have at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 1.5 million Jews supposedly died there. Not 4 million. But that went nowhere. Etc. etc. etc.

You just seem hell bent on supporting the Allied version of history. Nothing I say is going to change your mind. Nothing you can say will change my mind. Especially documents that come from a defeated country where it is illegal to question the established version of the holocaust. From what I saw, I wouldn't be willing to go anywhere above the six hundred thousand figure.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 05:57 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by freemind View Post
You seem to quote a German study. But there is a reason why it is illegal to question the accepted version of the holocaust in Germany. Because is is bullshit. I have seen estimates from the Red Cross that said the number was 271,000. I also remember running across a figure that was supposedly more thoroughly researched that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million) I have also heard a number of 20 million. Which is bullshit to the extreme.

If you go fishing around on the internet, you can come up with all types of figures. (Which no doubt is mostly history written by the victors) But in my thread that is now closed down to debate, I showed a bunch of newspaper articles from before WW II that talked about something bad happening to 6 million Jews. I just cant be so gullible as to believe the same bullshit number in regards to the holocaust.

I tried to tell you that there were no gas chambers. But that went nowhere. I tried to tell you that Germany deported most of its Jews to Palestine under the Haavara agreement. But that went nowhere. I tried to show you a plaque that they have at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 1.5 million Jews supposedly died there. Not 4 million. But that went nowhere. Etc. etc. etc.

You just seem hell bent on supporting the Allied version of history. Nothing I say is going to change your mind. Nothing you can say will change my mind. Especially documents that come from a defeated country where it is illegal to question the established version of the holocaust. From what I saw, I wouldn't be willing to go anywhere above the six hundred thousand figure.
Here's a little guideline from DTT's rules:
Please keep in mind that you can always walk away from a debate. If you find yourself arguing in circles, please consider the discussion to be finished.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 06:00 PM   #95
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 08:51 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by freemind View Post
You seem to quote a German study. But there is a reason why it is illegal to question the accepted version of the holocaust in Germany. Because is is bullshit.
It is illegal in Germany to question that the Holocaust took place, but not the numbers killed
Quote:
I have seen estimates from the Red Cross that said the number was 271,000.
In the January 19, 1955 edition of Die Tat it did indeed give a 300,000 figure from the Red Cross, but this was only in reference to "Germans and German Jews" killed by the Nazis and not nationals of other countries.
Also in their 1978 official bulletin, entitled "False Propaganda", the Red Cross denounced Holocaust denial and confirmed that the agency "Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it" and stated that its mission was "to help war victims, not to count them", and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics had they wanted to, given that they were "only able to enter only a few concentration camps...in the final days of the war"
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I also remember running across a figure that was supposedly more thoroughly researched that put the numbers anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000. (Not 6 million)
Another You-tube video rant, no doubt.
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I have also heard a number of 20 million. Which is bullshit to the extreme.
Actually, if you add the number of non-Jewish civilian murders committed by the Nazi's in their territories to the figure, it's not that far off.

Quote:
I tried to tell you that there were no gas chambers. But that went nowhere.
Thats because I know about the subject, therefore I knew you were lying.
Quote:
I tried to tell you that Germany deported most of its Jews to Palestine under the Haavara agreement. But that went nowhere.
According to the Nazis own figures there were still around 214,000 Jews in Germany at the start of the war, of whom approximately 165,000 later died in the holocaust.
Quote:
I tried to show you a plaque that they have at the holocaust memorial museum in Auschwitz that says that 1.5 million Jews supposedly died there. Not 4 million. But that went nowhere. Etc. etc. etc.
The figure used by historians has always been in the 1.1 to 1.5 million region, the 4 million figure was never used to make up the 6 million total.

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Nothing I say is going to change your mind. Nothing you can say will change my mind.
I know, but I'm only interested in exposing your lies
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From what I saw, I wouldn't be willing to go anywhere above the six hundred thousand figure.
Of course you wouldn't. After all, you are a Neo-Nazi.
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Last edited by MichaelT; January 3rd, 2016 at 09:13 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 02:19 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Here's a little guideline from DTT's rules:
Please keep in mind that you can always walk away from a debate. If you find yourself arguing in circles, please consider the discussion to be finished.
If I choose, so to speak, to "walk away" form somebody who refuses to see the truth, does that mean I have to walk away from everybody? For example, the Polish government probably had good reasons to remove the plaque at the Auschwitz holocaust memorial museum that says 4 million Jews were murdered there and replace it with a plaque that says that only 1.5 million Jews died there. I just can't go along with the idea that the reason they changed it was for anti-semitic reasons. And this is just Auschwitz we're talking about. Just because MichaelT has closed his eyes to such logic, maybe others still have an open mind.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 02:48 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by MichaelT View Post
It is illegal in Germany to question that the Holocaust took place, but not the numbers killed In the January 19, 1955 edition of Die Tat it did indeed give a 300,000 figure from the Red Cross, but this was only in reference to "Germans and German Jews" killed by the Nazis and not nationals of other countries.
Also in their 1978 official bulletin, entitled "False Propaganda", the Red Cross denounced Holocaust denial and confirmed that the agency "Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it" and stated that its mission was "to help war victims, not to count them", and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics had they wanted to, given that they were "only able to enter only a few concentration camps...in the final days of the war"
Another You-tube video rant, no doubt.
Actually, if you add the number of non-Jewish civilian murders committed by the Nazi's in their territories to the figure, it's not that far off.

Thats because I know about the subject, therefore I knew you were lying. According to the Nazis own figures there were still around 214,000 Jews in Germany at the start of the war, of whom approximately 165,000 later died in the holocaust.
The figure used by historians has always been in the 1.1 to 1.5 million region, the 4 million figure was never used to make up the 6 million total.


I know, but I'm only interested in exposing your lies
Of course you wouldn't. After all, you are a Neo-Nazi.
If you are questioning the numbers killed, you ARE questioning the holocaust. There have been people thrown in jail for questioning the holocaust. They weren't denying the holocaust. They were denying the numbers of Jews who were supposedly killed. Next, from what I remember hearing, they were able to dig up some Red Cross official who apologized for their agency having miscounted the numbers. That was in reference to the 271,000 figure. I will include a picture of one such document. As to whether or not they did miscount, that is a different matter. They had to get their numbers from somewhere. And if you give somebody enough money, you can get them to say anything.

Next, if you are going to help holocaust victims, wouldn't it be helpful to know how many there were? Next, The Red Cross was a neutral international organization whos job it was to see that prisoners of war or anybody else was being treated fairly. Surely that was something they looked in to. Also, why would the Germans have only let the Red Cross into any camps near the end of the war. When shortages of food and medicine caused by the war had undoubtedly made conditions in the camps much much worse.

Next, of course many civilians died in the war. That is besides the point. The point is the numbers of jews who died in Jewish internment camps. And more importantly, how they died. Next, how can I be lying about an event that I wasn't there to witness. If looking at things logically seems like lying to you, that is up to you. Next, my political leanings just happen to be more in the direction of National Socialism. I don't know if that exactly classifies me as a "Neo-Nazi." But it doesn't matter. After learning everything I have about how Hitler was able to turn Germany's economy around, calling me a Nazi of any kind is a compliment.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 02:53 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by freemind View Post
Just because MichaelT has closed his eyes to such logic, maybe others still have an open mind.
Don't worry, I will be here to stop you poisoning their minds with your Neo-Nazi lies.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 03:03 PM   #100
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Don't worry, I will be here to stop you poisoning their minds with your Neo-Nazi lies.
No doubt you will try to call my truths lies. But you will fail. As always.
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