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Old December 23rd, 2016, 07:32 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jimgorn View Post
You still do not get the point, do you??.....Nobody is denying that the Russians can not and do not electronically eavesdrop in our sensitive areas..... But so are the Chinese, the Iranians and the Israelis, (plus a few others).... The word "hacking" means that they are going into and changing information....such as causing voting machines to register Trump when Hillary was voted for.....Did that happen??....Or when the voting districts were tallied up, some false number was substituted, giving the advantage to Trump....Did that happen??.....What you are trying to claim is that somehow the Russians, by hacking into the DNC database, gave an unfair advantage to Trump.....Did that happen....if yes.... How??? ..... and, were Podesta's e-mails hacked (broken into) or where they phished (he inadvertently provided access) ??....By who?? and how did that affect Hillary??
No Jimmy, it's you who don't get the point. Perhaps the word hacking is not the right one. Stealing information is what's been going on, eavesdropping. You really get stuck on semantics sometimes. You're one of the dictionary quoters.

What to call the Russians' actions is a total diversion anyway. It's not just the theft. It's the timing of the releases too.

Anyway, I can't answer all the questions you posed but they are worth answering. That's why a THOROUGH investigation is warranted and why Trump's cavalierly dismissive attitude toward a thorough investigation has been damning.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 08:38 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
If we learned nothing else from the entire Hillary email fiasco, we learned this. The state department had systematic weaknesses. They played fast and loose with classifications and current technology. Hopefully, they have shored up their communications system and taken necessary steps to protect our government. THAT will be Trump's purview.
We did not learn the State Department played fast and loose with classification and technology. We learned Hillary Clinton played fast and loose with it. The mechanisms in the State department did what they were supposed to do. They had Hillary sign papers about classifications and proper email use. She willfully ignored it all. On top of it we learned that Obama was aware of it and even participated in it.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 10:28 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
We did not learn the State Department played fast and loose with classification and technology. We learned Hillary Clinton played fast and loose with it. The mechanisms in the State department did what they were supposed to do. They had Hillary sign papers about classifications and proper email use. She willfully ignored it all. On top of it we learned that Obama was aware of it and even participated in it.

Really? ARE YOU so blinded by partisanship you missed the obvious?? Did you even READ the OIG report?? Here are some of the findings:
*MANAGEMENT WEAKNESSES CONTRIBUTE TO LOSS OF
EMAIL RECORDS
*INSUFFICIENT OVERSIGHT OF RECORDING KEEPING PROCESS
*PRINT AND FILE REQUIREMENTS NOT ENFORCED
*LIMITED ABILITY TO RETRIEVE EMAIL RECORDS
*NO INVENTORY OF ARCHIVED ITEMS
*UNAVAILABLE OR INACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC FILES
*FAILURE TO TRANSFER RECORDS TO IPS
*FAILURE TO FOLLOW DEPARTMENT SEPARATION PROCESS
*FAILURE TO NOTIFY LOSS OF RECORDS
*UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO DEPARTMENT DATA
*CONCLUSION
Longstanding, systemic weaknesses related to electronic records and communications have existed within the Office of the Secretary that go well beyond the tenure of any one Secretary of State. OIG recognizes that technology and Department policy have evolved considerably since Secretary Albright’s tenure began in 1997. Nevertheless, the Department generally and the
Office of the Secretary in particular have been slow to recognize and to manage effectively the legal requirements and cybersecurity risks associated with electronic data communications,particularly as those risks pertain to its most senior leadership. OIG expects that itsrecommendations will move the Department steps closer to meaningfully addressing these risks.

Read the report here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/...039/?tid=a_inl
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 11:37 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
No Jimmy, it's you who don't get the point. Perhaps the word hacking is not the right one. Stealing information is what's been going on, eavesdropping. You really get stuck on semantics sometimes. You're one of the dictionary quoters.

What to call the Russians' actions is a total diversion anyway. It's not just the theft. It's the timing of the releases too.

Anyway, I can't answer all the questions you posed but they are worth answering. That's why a THOROUGH investigation is warranted and why Trump's cavalierly dismissive attitude toward a thorough investigation has been damning.
Nobody is arguing that there needs to be a very thorough investigation into just how secure these systems are....And why it was so reckless for Hillary to go off the State Department grid....

But that is why I asked the question....How did it affect the election??....The left is creating the narrative that the Russkis stole (I'm glad we cleared that up) both from the DNC and the RNC.....equally....Did they??... And they are not releasing the RNC material because they wanted Trump to win....Which begs a couple more questions (I love questions)....Was the RNC even hacked??.(probably).. or was it simply more secure???... or if it was hacked, wasn't there any embarrassing information to use??...or was that information already out there??...Now, let's look at their motive....Did the Russkis want Trump to win??...or was it simply that Putin hates Hillary??

Then we get to the timing.....The major hacking was of the DNC....How did that affect Trump??..It looks like they caught Hillary and Debbie Wasserman Schultz up to sabotaging Bernie Sanders...Yeah....the timing was just right to affect the Dem Convention and the nomination..supporting the contention that Putin hates Hillary....Now what does that have to do with the general election, and what was not true about it.??....Did John Podesta's e-mails affect the election??..

Which brings us all back to the only way the Russkis (or who ever) could affect the election...cause voting machines to register a Trump vote for a Hillary vote, and/or cause the tabulating of election returns from the precincts to be inaccurately tallied......Is there evidence of that.??

Seems to me that all we have here is that the Russkis (probable) or someone else (I lean towards Israel) caught Hillary and Co. with their hand in the DNC cookie jar and the Democrats are trying to misrepresent that as a nefarious trick orchestrated by Trump and Putin to make Hillary look like a victim...Thereby adding to the de-legitimization of a Trump Administration

Now do you understand the skepticism???
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 12:10 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Jimgorn View Post
Nobody is arguing that there needs to be a very thorough investigation into just how secure these systems are....And why it was so reckless for Hillary to go off the State Department grid....

But that is why I asked the question....How did it affect the election??....The left is creating the narrative that the Russkis stole (I'm glad we cleared that up) both from the DNC and the RNC.....equally....Did they??... And they are not releasing the RNC material because they wanted Trump to win....Which begs a couple more questions (I love questions)....Was the RNC even hacked??.(probably).. or was it simply more secure???... or if it was hacked, wasn't there any embarrassing information to use??...or was that information already out there??...Now, let's look at their motive....Did the Russkis want Trump to win??...or was it simply that Putin hates Hillary??

Then we get to the timing.....The major hacking was of the DNC....How did that affect Trump??..It looks like they caught Hillary and Debbie Wasserman Schultz up to sabotaging Bernie Sanders...Yeah....the timing was just right to affect the Dem Convention and the nomination..supporting the contention that Putin hates Hillary....Now what does that have to do with the general election, and what was not true about it.??....Did John Podesta's e-mails affect the election??..

Which brings us all back to the only way the Russkis (or who ever) could affect the election...cause voting machines to register a Trump vote for a Hillary vote, and/or cause the tabulating of election returns from the precincts to be inaccurately tallied......Is there evidence of that.??

Seems to me that all we have here is that the Russkis (probable) or someone else (I lean towards Israel) caught Hillary and Co. with their hand in the DNC cookie jar and the Democrats are trying to misrepresent that as a nefarious trick orchestrated by Trump and Putin to make Hillary look like a victim...Thereby adding to the de-legitimization of a Trump Administration

Now do you understand the skepticism???
There needs to be a thorough investigation of Russian activities that could have influenced the election. Check out my thread on Putin "knowing" Trump would be elected.

How or if a foreign government affected our election should be uncovered by a thorough investigation.

Presently, we don't know whether RNC systems were compromised by a foreign government. We don't know if any information that could be used to blackmail was obtained.

The Russkis absolutely wanted Trump to win. I get the Russian news every day. Yes ... the ... Russians ... wanted ... Trump ... to ... win, and, they were assured that he would win.

Now you're asking dumb questions, to wit: "The major hacking was of the DNC....How did that affect Trump?" Putin "hates" Hillary because she'd never nominate a man who was decorated by Putin with Russia's highest civilian award for service to Russia, and who's head of the world's biggest oil company, Mr. Tillerson. It's all about money, Jim.

This is not a partisan issue, although it can be framed as such. This is a national security issue, a sovereignty issue, an issue that must be thoroughly investigated but is unlikely to be assisted in any way by Trump. If there's anything that would de-legitmize a Trump presidency, it would be a lock of urgency on his part to get to the bottom of this potential interference by a foreign power in our electoral process and decision-making. If you have any skepticism about that, then no, I don't understand it.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 12:40 PM   #116
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Putin knows he can play Trump like the narcissist he is.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 12:42 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
There needs to be a thorough investigation of Russian activities that could have influenced the election. Check out my thread on Putin "knowing" Trump would be elected.

How or if a foreign government affected our election should be uncovered by a thorough investigation.

Presently, we don't know whether RNC systems were compromised by a foreign government. We don't know if any information that could be used to blackmail was obtained.

The Russkis absolutely wanted Trump to win. I get the Russian news every day. Yes ... the ... Russians ... wanted ... Trump ... to ... win, and, they were assured that he would win.

Now you're asking dumb questions, to wit: "The major hacking was of the DNC....How did that affect Trump?" Putin "hates" Hillary because she'd never nominate a man who was decorated by Putin with Russia's highest civilian award for service to Russia, and who's head of the world's biggest oil company, Mr. Tillerson. It's all about money, Jim.
No the question is not dumb, because it is about the "timing" of the leaks, not about who hates who, or how much money someone has...that's diversion...The question is.....How did the leaks affect the election if they happened (1) during the Convention, thereby affecting/or trying to affect who the Dem nominee was??..Or (2) if it was John Podesta's e-mails which were boreing and nobody took any notice to.?? This all meets the definition of a "Red Herring"

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
This is not a partisan issue, although it can be framed as such. This is a national security issue, a sovereignty issue, an issue that must be thoroughly investigated but is unlikely to be assisted in any way by Trump. If there's anything that would de-legitmize a Trump presidency, it would be a lock of urgency on his part to get to the bottom of this potential interference by a foreign power in our electoral process and decision-making. If you have any skepticism about that, then no, I don't understand it.
How many times must I repeat...."I agree with this part"??..I am not skeptical about the need for a thorough investigation....That is a necessity....And Trump is obligated to get to the bottom of it....What I am skeptical about is whether it is necessary for Obama to be pointing fingers at the Russians....Even if they did steal information (probable) the smart thing to do at this time is keep his mouth shut, investigate and react in kind.. No drama... But him and the Dem subordinates in the media are making an issue of it.....and that"s what smells like a political agenda, and a dangerous one at that...
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 01:09 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Really? ARE YOU so blinded by partisanship you missed the obvious?? Did you even READ the OIG report?? Here are some of the findings:
*MANAGEMENT WEAKNESSES CONTRIBUTE TO LOSS OF
EMAIL RECORDS
*INSUFFICIENT OVERSIGHT OF RECORDING KEEPING PROCESS
*PRINT AND FILE REQUIREMENTS NOT ENFORCED
*LIMITED ABILITY TO RETRIEVE EMAIL RECORDS
*NO INVENTORY OF ARCHIVED ITEMS
*UNAVAILABLE OR INACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC FILES
*FAILURE TO TRANSFER RECORDS TO IPS
*FAILURE TO FOLLOW DEPARTMENT SEPARATION PROCESS
*FAILURE TO NOTIFY LOSS OF RECORDS
*UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO DEPARTMENT DATA
*CONCLUSION
Longstanding, systemic weaknesses related to electronic records and communications have existed within the Office of the Secretary that go well beyond the tenure of any one Secretary of State. OIG recognizes that technology and Department policy have evolved considerably since Secretary Albright’s tenure began in 1997. Nevertheless, the Department generally and the
Office of the Secretary in particular have been slow to recognize and to manage effectively the legal requirements and cybersecurity risks associated with electronic data communications,particularly as those risks pertain to its most senior leadership. OIG expects that itsrecommendations will move the Department steps closer to meaningfully addressing these risks.

Read the report here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/...039/?tid=a_inl
Yes from the article you posted first paragraph:
Quote:
State Department report on Clinton's email practices

The State Department's independent watchdog has issued a highly critical analysis of Hillary Clinton's email practices while running the department, concluding that she failed to seek legal approval for her use of a private email server and that department staff would not have given its blessing because of the "security risks in doing so."
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 02:13 PM   #119
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What is funny to me is that nothing really has changed from when the emails were leaked during the election and now.
We all knew someone out side of the USA was likely responsible for the hacking of the DNC and Hillary Clinton. Is this not correct? The only real difference is the media spin. Calling it a "hacked election". A deceptive phrase trying to make it sound like out voting tabulation was hacked. Its all spin. Is there any doubt that Wilipeaks has many foreign sources?

Last edited by justoneman; December 23rd, 2016 at 04:28 PM.
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