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Old December 17th, 2016, 07:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
Putin is a leader of a very large and very powerful country. There are lots of terrible leaders around the world and Putin is certainly not the worst around. We deal with China and Pakistan and Ukraine and Turkey and Cuba for example. There are a variety of issues and problems with each. I am upset about the Russian invasion of Crimea but all things need to be understood in context. Crimea is and was a majority of Russians in the population. The Ukraine is and has been a country in turmoil. A civil war between the different populations in Crimea. Crimea also was not part of Ukraine until very recently.

We have to deal with reality and be pragmatic. Russia and the USA do have some shared interests. Namely to stop Muslim extremists from taking over their respective countries. Being adult about issues is more important than calling people names.


OH so now we are rating murderous maniac leaders around the world. Are we using the FIVE star system? On a scale of 1-10?? If Putin has only murdered 25-30 he's not so bad, if Assad murdered 40-50?? You can't be serious. WHO thinks like that?
And have you not seen what's happening in Syria? WHO exactly are the two leaders who are actually assisting the terrorists? PUTIN and ASSAD.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 07:50 AM   #12
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A couple of points.
1) STILL SITTING PRESIDENT Barack Obama can say any damn thing he wants.
2) PUTIN is a murdering, lying thug and anyone who defends him is stupid.
3) It is absolutely unbelieveable and unprecedented for Americans to choose sides/leaders/countries on this issue, just because Trump the Asshat thinks Putin is cool. Do not call yourself an American patriot and then trash our intelligence agencies who have kept us safe. It's like trashing our military--our veterans. NO NO NO. It's just wrong from every angle.
4) Having said all that, it's time for the CIA and all the intelligence agencies to PONY UP. I want facts--proof--evidence. Put up or SHUT up.....not that the RW fringe will believe it, but the American public has a right to know exactly what they've got.
Sitting is all he is. Obimbo has finally found a "cause" he can look relevant on. If it weren't for the fact that Putin cares less about what Obimbo thinks this might be important. But like every other red-line Obimbo draws, he will fold like a chair if challenged.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 08:27 AM   #13
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Sitting is all he is. Obimbo has finally found a "cause" he can look relevant on. If it weren't for the fact that Putin cares less about what Obimbo thinks this might be important. But like every other red-line Obimbo draws, he will fold like a chair if challenged.
If it weren't for the fact that hammering Obama is more important to you than determining whether a foreign power attempted to influence our election, we might have a united front with which to face Putin.

But you, brain damaged you, somehow rate ridiculing Obama ahead of standing shoulder to shoulder with your fellow Americans facing down a possible - and likely, certainly within character - foreign threat.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #14
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The long-term and recent history of Crimea is complex. In 1954, ownership of Crimea was given to Ukraine. In 1992, the residents of Crimea voted to remain a part of Ukraine. In 1994, Russia agreed to this. In 1997, Russia and Ukraine signed the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership in which Russia acknowledged and agreed to Ukraine's ownership of Crimea.

Of course, in 2006 "With us or against us" GW did, as he always did, screw up things by landing US Marines in Crimea, a part of a NATO exercise.

In 2010, Ukraine ratified a treaty giving Russia the right to maintain its naval base in Sevastopol until 2042. The Russian Duma also approved the treaty.

All's good, right? No military actions of occupations, rather a treaty, the result of negotiations, was in place.

On Feb. 27, 2014 Russian troops occupied Crimea and installed a man, Sergey Aksyonov, who was nicknamed "The Goblin" for his lawless acts of violence and intimidation in Crimea during the turbulent times following the dissolution of the USSR, as "president" of Crimea.

As bad as that is, Putin then began arming "rebels" in Ukraine's east. The goal was to transform Ukraine into a failed state that never would be admitted into the EU. Putin's buddy, Viktor Yanukovich, had campaigned for president in 2010 on leading Ukraine's admission into the EU. In 2013, on the eve of the start of the admission process, he told Ukrainians, oops, I didnt mean that. Instead we're going to join a Russian economic bloc. The Maidan Revolution followed.

Putin was successful in turning Ukraine into a failed state, his objective all along.

Yes we have to deal with Putin, but I swear those on the right were on the front lines maintaining that a strong-arm, de facto dictator like Putin only respected strength, and as I remember, Obama was criticized for not being strong enough with Putin, you know, how Putin was a ten times better leader than the pussy Obama.

Then, Trump got elected and because he's cool with Putin, being cool with Putin is the right thing to do. Talk about sheeple....

Yes, the CIA et al need to provide some stronger evidence of Russian meddling, but who knows what embedded operatives might be outed by revealing such evidence? Regardless, it's most disconcerting that the knee jerk on the right side is to go with Putin over Obama. Don't doubt for a minute that Putin counted on this, and don't for a minute think that Putin is looking for any long-term partnership with the US.
You also have to list the ills the government of Ukraine has, in your breakdown as well. The Ukraine government has been about as corrupt a government as one can have. Hooliganism and graft and payola and murder. There are no angels in any of it.

Last edited by justoneman; December 17th, 2016 at 11:16 AM.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 10:48 AM   #15
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This "hell bent on going to war with Russia" is a line straight out of the Kremlin. It is what the paranoid Russkis believe. Wait, no, because Putin and his cronies lined their pockets when the price of oil was high, this is what the Russian citizens have been told..

Russian infrastructure makes ours look really good. Take away oil exports, and there's nothing to the Russian "industrial base." Russians were marching in the streets in 2012, demanding an end to the corruption endemic in the government and the highest echelons of business.

Putin came down hard, and has murdered journalists and opposition leaders ever since. But discontent simmers, inside the opposition to Putin's United Russia party and from the nostalgics who murmur about how things were better under Stalin,

So, to distract the people they've been told the US is looking for a nuclear war with Russia. Collectively, the horror of WWII still lurks in the minds of many. "The US wants a nuclear war with us' scares the hell out of the people. Of course, the Good Tsar Putin will save them.

Now all that makes sense from a Russian's point of view, but what gets me is Americans picking up the Russian line and repeating it like a mantra.

It's bullshit. Russia is our enemy according to them. They're not to be trusted or believed. It's their choice. It's true, over the last 60 years or so Western leaders have misled Russian leaders. Gorbachev in particular was screwed by GHW. But nobody in the US government wants a nuclear war with Russia.

No body.


I know where does this war with Russia come from?

Oh yeah?!!!?

https://youtu.be/ykk8ibRhx-g
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Old December 17th, 2016, 10:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
Are you making this post as an official spokesperson?
Yes!!

(Another fucktarded post brought to you by skews)
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:00 AM   #17
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So the American people don't have the right to know that the election was hacked by Russia?
So Obama should wait for Trump to decide how to handle that tidbit of information?

How does the information tarnish Trump?
The Kremlin says it was in contact with the Trump campaign, that's the Kremlin talking, not Obama.
The CIA and the FBI don't have Obama vet everything they say, or Comey would have not been allowed to voice spurious charges, with no basis in fact, against Clinton during the campaign.

OK, some people who voted for Trump are going to be disappointed, but they were going to be disappointed anyway, jobs aren't coming back, the deficit is going to balloon, the economy is going to stagnate not to mention the millions who will lose their health insurance.


Not surprisingly you completely missed the point.

Making unsubstantiated public accusations is the issue. If there is evidence then that should be made public before Obama starts running off about things. He will not be in the White House long enough to see any of this through. That is the issue. It all looks like a giant smokescreen.

Then again didn't the run under the guise of transparency?

Beyond laughable.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:13 AM   #18
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I just love to pick at left-wing logic.....Here we have the left trying to find hypocrisy on the right by claiming the right is now in love with Putin, but when Reagan was POTUS they were enemy numer uno..... <false>.. nobody on the right is now suddenly trusting Russia/Putin because it's contrary to the Obama/Clinton agenda....

Hot Flash.!! Even us on the right have zero trust or love for Putin or the Russkis....It's just that we are not so cavalier of accusing a dangerous enemy with Trumped up allegations.... Obama, just running out and accusing the Russians of hacking an election, is just plain stupid....It is probably one of his dumbest moves.... What does the Big O think is going to happen if it turns out that the hack was done by some other bunch of misfits, or was an internal whistle blower ?? Nobody is certain of that.yet....
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
You also have to list the ills the government of Ukraine in your breakdown as well. The Ukraine government has been about as corrupt a government as one can have. Hooliganism and graft and payola and murder. There are no angels in any of it.
Yes, remember? I told you that Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus set the bar for corruption.

But it's undeniable that Putin aimed to make Ukraine a failed state, and he succeeded. Before the crash, Russian journalists appearing on Ukrainian shows remarked how free things were in Ukraine compared to Russia.

I'm not sure how many of them disappeared or were discredited when they returned home, but it's that freedom thing that scares the hell out of Putin and his cronies, especially a free press.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:26 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
I know where does this war with Russia come from?

Oh yeah?!!!?

https://youtu.be/ykk8ibRhx-g
Watch that cherry-picked comment in context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNgElVy7eQ

The general clarifies that stopping the barrel bombing of Syrian civilians would not require the US going to war with Syria and Russia, Details, details....
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