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Old January 15th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #1
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What Punishment Would Be Appropriate To Which Crime?

For instance:

Rapists, and Child-Molestors,

Instead of putting them to death, or locking them up, where they're out of sight, out of mind, and not being used as an example to deter the next would-be rapist, or child-molestor, why not make an example of them? Why not make their punisment public, and keep them in public, for all to see?

Here's my plan:

After the trial, and sentencing. Maybe after the appeal, even. They're taken out to the courthouse lawn, stripped, and attached to a sturdy upright post, planted in the grass for this purpose, for 24 hours. In my version, the convicted criminal would be shackled hand and foot to rings attached to an 8X8 post standing 8 feet tall, and sunk 4 feet into the ground. He should have room to move around, stand and sit, but not to lash out at anyone. There would be a barrel there, full of sturdy 1 inch by 4 foot staves, maybe a little bigger.

After the criminal is attached, he would be fair game for all of the women and children in the community to come and have at him with the staves. The only restriction being that they could not inflict any life-threatening injury. A Deputy and an EMT would have to be present at all times to ensure this.

When the 24 hour period is over, then the criminal would be removed to the local hospital, where he could recover, and be given a lobotomy. After recovery from the whipping and the lobotomy, then he could be fitted out in an orange jumpsuit, and set to work in a gang with the others of his kind along roadsides, picking up trash, filling potholes, gardening, or any of a number of other useful jobs, for the rest of his life.

It may sound harsh, and unrealistic, but it would make a would-be rapist stop and think about the price he may have to pay, every time he saw a group of drooling morons in orange cleaning up a roadside, or filling potholes, sweeping streets, clearing brush, or whatever, and they would be giving something back to the community for housing and feeding them. they would be no harm to others anymore, and no flight risk, the relevent parts of their brains having been destroyed.

So, what do you think? Any other creative ideas out there to deter crime, or to make the punishment fit the crime?
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Old January 16th, 2007, 03:45 AM   #2
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Many truly guilty do not get caught

Justice is not always easily seen.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 03:56 AM   #3
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Many truly guilty do not get caught

The problem with any punishment measures of justice is the true criminals are not the only ones to be prosecuted.

I think this is the case with criminal activity on a whole. Society in many cases do not mete out Justice justly. Prosecutions and charges are brought about by politics. In many cases justice is ignored when or if the perpetrator of the crime has any politic clout or influence.

In the cases of child molestation many are never caught or tried. In years past many of these cases were kept quiet by the families of the perpetrators. Shame covered up what had happened. The victim list grew, as other family’s members were unaware that Uncle so and so was a child predator. Some of the older family members knew yet said nothing to prevent the events from repeating. The children were frightened into silence until they were adults and even then it took years for them to speak out about what had happened to them and traumatized them at such an early age. The things that haunted these children into adulthood remained silent. As adults they had voices and some of them would speak out. By then though the perpetrator had many more victims added to the long list.

It is not always easy to see from both sides of the fence unless you have been there.

A young boy of 12 thrilled that a girl would lavish such attention and affection on him could not fully comprehend when his parents told him a girl kissing him in the street was inappropriate. Two years later he would sit lonely in a cell waiting for the arraignment for sexual charges levied against him. Wondering what exactly did I do wrong? Not fully understanding the evil ways revenge can be exacted. He would spend months of being pounded on in facilities of law and justice and spend more than a year of house arrest before an actual trial would ensue to clear him of these hideous false charges levied against him. The girl who made the claims of abuse against the boy parents used to work for his parents. Finally in court when she was asked why would you say such things that were not true. She claimed this, "Because his mother fired my mom and dad." The prosecutor had known this all along the charges were false yet refused to let the matter go due to political ramifications. By now the young boy was sixteen years old and damaged in ways only those who have been there would understand fully. He would never have trust for the justice system of the world again.

Sometimes Fred the best we can do is hope and wait on the Lord for justice. He does mete it out fairly and He alone is just. I know this does not make up for what has happened to victims of such hideous things. Yet I have personally seen both sides of this fence.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 08:09 PM   #4
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You are absolutely right about the system as it stands. They say that "Justice is blind" and in being blind, it sometimes makes horrendous mistakes.

The thing we really need so far as justice is concerned in this country, as highlighted by the case currently ongoing in North Carolina, is some form of oversight for the DA's. I've seen these people try cases that shouldn't have ever been tried, just for political reasons, not caring that they're ruining lives.

I saw one instance where a man murdered another. The murder occured within the presence of an ex-cop, who panicked, and didn't do anything to report the crime, making him an accessory. When the case came to trial, the DA made a deal with the murderer, giving him 8 years for assault with a deadly weapon, in order to go after the ex-cop, so that the DA looked better in the newspaper. Both men should have gotten impartial treatment under the law for the crimes they committed, instead of the true killer getting a slap on the wrist, so that the DA would look good in the news.

Another case: A boy and girl were dating, and having sex wth her parents knowledge. the boy was 17, the girl 16. When the boy turned 18, her parents told him he had to marry the girl. When he refused, saying he wanted to wait till they had both graduated high-school, her mother filed statutory rape charges against him. The local DA, seeing headlines, prosecuted the case successfully. This made him a convicted child molestor.

There is a lot that should be done to revamp the system, and I don't propose that we should exact revenge, but when a person has clearly committed a crime, there should be some form of PUBLIC punishment to be used as a deterrence. I realize publicity doesn't deter all of the potential criminals out there, but it may reach more of them than we realize.

As to God's revenge. Of course He is the final Judge for all of us, and His punishments are not all eternal. He does punish, in this life, as well as the next one. We should punish criminal behavior, but leave the revenge to Him.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 08:38 PM   #5
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And what about the times a woman throws out child abuse claims during divorce cases then family services steps in and stop any contact and by the time the father can get it to court his future ex and fam. services have the child totally f__k up in the head the man is requiquired to prove a false nagative. Try it it's almost impossable to do.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #6
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Increasing the dregree of punishment is VERY RARELY effective in crubing crime.

Rather it is crime prevention and detection techniques that are more influential.

There are several reasons why this may not be the best way of dealing with child molesters and rapists:

1) The above crimes while sometimes premeditated, are generally crimesof passion. In the sense that the rapist or child molester rarely knows that he is going to rape somebody BEFORE he actually does it. Usually it is circumstance ( do he feel like it AND can he get away with it) that determines whether a man goes through with it. Therefore seeing drooling fools in jumpsuits are AT BEST going to make him MORE CAREFUL ( which in turn reduces the detection level). Besides if a man KNOWS he is gonna be lobotomised, don't you think he will kill the victim to secure himself?

2) I myself was molested at the age of 5. The awful thing however was that i was molested by another boy of 16. Whatever the case, that boy was just a child. Children do not have the same sense of right and wrong as a well- informed adult.

ALSO children with skewed perceptions of right and wrong are generally abuse victims themselves. How will THEY get justice?

Whether we like it or not, most rapists and child molesters have mitigating circumstances. Can you punish a mentally ill person who grew up getting raped by his dad every night?

3) Public display and public participation in violence is, in my opinion, primitive. There is enough violence in the world as it is. Do we really need "interactive punishment"? It will only be state sanctioned violence.. i dunno about you, but i would not want to live in a country where i can publicly view and even participate in violence against a human.

Punishment is the job of government. It should not be made an avenue to people to vent their frustrations.

Personally i have a slightly different suggestion.

Whil ei firmyl believe that the execution of punishment lies with government, cases like these require greater involvement by the victim ( the victim is the MOST IMPORTANT PERSON in this scenario).

FOr instance, while unlikely, SOME victims choose to forgive and forget. Whatever that dude did to me as a child, i am glad he was not killed or lobotomised ( i told my dad and he beat the dude to pieces). I would not want a human death on my conscience.

You see as a victim what you REALLY care about is whether somebody is there to take care of you. I only needed to feel my parents love and support to recover from this ordeal. Venegance never played a part.. As it SHOULDN'T

When you get molested the MAIN trauma isn't physical.. it is mental. When you get molested, another person crosses your boundaries. Very often that is followed by intense guilt because one feel responsible for this breach.

The only thing important to a child in this situation is KNOWING that he/she did nothing wrong. Venegance doesn't figure in the equation. it doesn't add or subtract the pain felt.

Basically while i totaly understand your sentiment ( i myself went through many years of anger before i let it go .. but let it go one must ) I disagree with the sanctioning of public violence. It is not helpful to the victims and it certainly does nothing to address the circumstances that created the urge to rape and molest in an individual.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 03:10 AM   #7
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I never stated that punishment should be given into the hands of the people. It should be administered by the state, with the active participation of the public.

Whether you like it or not, if you want to hide behind a mask of "civility" the government is an arm of the people, and all the punishments prescribed by law, are prescribed to be "Public." That is, according to the law, all punishments should be carried out by the state, and in full view of the public!

A lot of people confuse being civilized, with being too soft on criminals.

Sure the child rapist was probably raped himself as a child. That was when he was a child, and if he still is a child, then a different course should be applied, as it is now. However, according to the law, an adult knows the difference between right and wrong, regardless of his background, at least to the point that he can, and should be held accountable for his crime.

I disagree that it is usually a crime of opportunity. I have spent many hours with these individuals, and understand that they intend no harm to the child, however they go about it, the act of love for them, is an act of violence for the child. They don't get this. That in their "love," they are completely overwhelming a child. Then the cycle continues, that child, when he grows up, takes his revenge, not on the adult that did this to him, rather, he chooses another child, around the same age, and commits the same crime against this child.

I don't know you, and I wonder about you saying that you disagree with "public" punishment of a crime, but it was ok for your father to "beat the crap" out of the molestor. That was indeed public, and an example of the public taking the prosecution of the crime out of the hands of the criminal justice system, completely. One last thing.

Most of the people who cry for excusing the behavior of a criminal type, are contemplating that behavior in themselves. Most molestors were molested themselves. I, sir, would never trust you to be alone with my child. No offense to you, but it just wouldn't be worth the risk. I'd hate to have to "beat the crap out of you."
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Old January 17th, 2007, 04:49 AM   #8
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the current Justice system

Fred, you are correct about the justice system throughout the country being off. I agree more of information should be made publicly aware, in both cases of criminal intent and in cases where prosecutors and judges play God. When these guys are giving unequaled justice it will not create a more justice minded atmosphere in our society. The poor that are unable to defend themselves with the best representation are not protected. Many judges turn a blind eye to truth when they sit on their benches.

Lawyers take that oath upon being accepted into their positions then there is only a handful abide in those vows when they take the Bar examines. Simply revamping the justice system without revamping the legal feild would be a waste of time.

Public humiliation could deter some criminals. When there are only a handful of people in the entire system that trustworthy enough not to use their positions for gain, it is very difficult to find justice for some.

I watched a 20/20 episode online where a son of a preacher committed murder and got off scott free. In the same note a poor young man that smoked a joint got life in prison. The same judge ruled over both cases.

The only way this type of injustice can be stop right away is educate the people. Judges can be voted out of office. I see on the internet people calling for justice throughout the country. So it is not just in one part of the nation or the other, it is throughout. There are several who have organized and are working throughout the country working to change the system.

I will say this as a last note. Many churches have became involved in curbing justice for certain members of their congregations. Some gather to the masses in these church settings to hide their ways or to move people into their agendas. Some church leaders have confused justice with the message of salvation. They have even convinced women to stay with men who have clearly abused and use the Bible as their authority in these matters. I find these matters all disturbing and disgusting. When they do this it annulls the power of God's Word and truthfully damages those who truly believe and walk in the way. With all that said, there comes a point when the saints are given back the kingdom of earth. We have hope to see that day.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 07:12 AM   #9
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Punishment for a first offense of a violent sexual crime should be castration.

Second time offenders should receive the death penalty.

I'm not talking about barbaric "hacking off their nuts" castration. Do it surgically - removing the primary source of the testosterone hormone that is largely responsible for sexual aggression.

There must be no question that the person is guilty.

It has been proven, over and over and over, that sexual predators are rarely (if ever) "reformed". It simply does NOT happen.

- Remove the organs that primarily cause sexual aggression.

- If that doesn't work, remove the sexual predator permanently.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jefferson
Punishment for a first offense of a violent sexual crime should be castration.


- Remove the organs that primarily cause sexual aggression.

. . .

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the brain the major sex organ?

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