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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:27 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Jefferson also owned slaves.

As brilliant as Jefferson was (and he was brilliant) he was still a man living in the 18th century and therefore did not have access to 19th, 20th and 21st knowledge. His worldview was limited by the times in which he lived.

In some things his views are as valid today as they were when he expressed them, in other things not so much.
Jefferson's views of sodomy was consistent with several thousand years of sodomy laws, including English common law and Biblical law, which was the basis of our laws before and after the Constitution. Jefferson's law was rather progressive as it eliminated the death penalty for sodomy.

The common law sodomy law basis that was used in this country originated in 1533 when King Henry VIII converted ecclesiastical law into English common law as England left the Catholic church.

Considering that thousands of years of sodomy laws were common around the world, and in the U.S they were not eliminated until Lawrence v. Texas of 2003, which did not have a constitutional basis, Jefferson's law was statistically irrelevant in the big picture.

There is a common thread in the life cycles of nations as far back as recorded history, and the break-down of morality is one of the common denominators.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:27 AM   #82
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...Why dont you take your arrogant pompous old ass somewhere else...Its not his job or anyone else here to enlighten you or educate you...Do it yourself!...Im tired of reading your bullshit...You have offered nothing of substtance, your an idiot who thinks he knows it all...Time for ignore...At least Jimmyb makes you think, all i want to do when you speak is punch iyou in the face, which is exactly the reaction your looking for...
This is the best post of 2016.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:54 AM   #83
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Jefferson's views of sodomy was consistent with several thousand years of sodomy laws
So were his views on race relations, astronomy and physics.

And just as our views on those topics have been modified because of new knowledge so have our views on sexuality.

This is the problem you have when you base your views on the ancient text supposedly inspired by an all powerful all knowing God. If you believe that the ancient text is based on the teachings of an all knowing God then you can't throw them out when knowledge that contradicts it is discovered.

This is the biggest difference between the Enlightenment philosophy that was the biggest influence on the Founding Fathers and the strict Biblical/Christian philosophy you claim they were inspired by.

Enlightenment philosophy follows the idea that knowledge is discovered by reason. Biblical/Christianity philosophy follows the idea that knowledge comes from divine revelation.

Jefferson would be the last person that would hold a view simply because it was a view held "for thousands of years". His views were based on the best knowledge he had in the 1700's, 250 years later our knowledge has improved to realize that his views were wrong.
Thanks from RNG and Hollywood
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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:57 AM   #84
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This is the best post of 2016.
The year 2016 is not yet over genius.
Perhaps you should have said something along the lines of , "This is the best post of 2016 to date, or so far."
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Old June 5th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #85
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Statutory rape is a joke!
Why?
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Old June 5th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #86
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So were his views on race relations, astronomy and physics.

And just as our views on those topics have been modified because of new knowledge so have our views on sexuality.

This is the problem you have when you base your views on the ancient text supposedly inspired by an all powerful all knowing God. If you believe that the ancient text is based on the teachings of an all knowing God then you can't throw them out when knowledge that contradicts it is discovered.

This is the biggest difference between the Enlightenment philosophy that was the biggest influence on the Founding Fathers and the strict Biblical/Christian philosophy you claim they were inspired by.

Enlightenment philosophy follows the idea that knowledge is discovered by reason. Biblical/Christianity philosophy follows the idea that knowledge comes from divine revelation.

Jefferson would be the last person that would hold a view simply because it was a view held "for thousands of years". His views were based on the best knowledge he had in the 1700's, 250 years later our knowledge has improved to realize that his views were wrong.
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So were his views on race relations, astronomy and physics.
Jefferson did not have a view on race relations because the term “race relations” is a modern liberal buzz word and concept. Jefferson did not are for slavery and sought to abolish slavery and educate the freed slaves in Virginia in 1782 with his Notes on Virginia. His passage regarding slavery was removed from the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson inherited all of his slaves. He inherited around forty from this father at the age of twenty-one, and around one-hundred and seventy-five from his father in law. They were mortgaged and were needed to keep up with the mortgage and to keep up with the mortgage; they were needed to work his land. When he did buy slaves, it was less than twenty, and it was re-reunite families. Jefferson’s actions regarding slavery were an economic necessity and not a moral issue.

The only thing that has advanced regarding astronomy and physics is knowledge based on technology. There are no advance views on slavery based on knowledge, and the advancement of technology would have eliminated slavery not long after the Civil War.

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And just as our views on those topics have been modified because of new knowledge so have our views on sexuality.
There are no new views regarding sexuality other than from a liberal point of view in the aggregate, and those views have only been perpetuated across the country because of judicial fiat without a constitutional basis. This is a profoundly regressive concept and puts the country in a non-sustainable position.
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This is the problem you have when you base your views on the ancient text supposedly inspired by an all powerful all knowing God. If you believe that the ancient text is based on the teachings of an all knowing God then you can't throw them out when knowledge that contradicts it is discovered.
My views are not based on an ancient text. My views are based on the intent of the Constitution. The Constitution is the governing document of this country and its intent and meaning are the rule of law, which has been removed from the Constitution. There is no new knowledge regarding God or the Constitution that contradicts the Constitution. Article V of the Constitution does not mention the concept of contradicting knowledge.

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This is the biggest difference between the Enlightenment philosophy that was the biggest influence on the Founding Fathers and the strict Biblical/Christian philosophy you claim they were inspired by.

Enlightenment philosophy follows the idea that knowledge is discovered by reason. Biblical/Christianity philosophy follows the idea that knowledge comes from divine revelation.
There is no Enlightenment influence other than for the reason for the Revolutionary War outside the thinkers whose philosophies were God centric. That concept came directly from Locke, and Locke got it from God. The concept of the natural rights derived from God of Life, liberty, and property are to be protected by the government and when they are not, and then it is obligatory for the people to revolt against the government. The social contracts of Rousseau and Locke are based on the natural rights derived from God, and the government is responsible for protecting those rights by not interfering with those rights. If the government does this, then the people will allow the government to rule and exist. In Locke’s Two Treatise of Government, which was profoundly influential on the founding of this country, the concept was that men are by the law of God are free from a government that does not protect the God-given rights of life, liberty, and property. Reason did not play a part in this other than understanding God through reason according to Locke, and that morality came from God. Locke believed that man was owned by God, not the government.

The Founders all believed in an intervening God and explicitly sought his guidance at the Philadelphia convention.

The Enlightenment thinkers who influenced the Founders and the founding of this country were Locke, Montesquieu, and Rousseau, and they believed in a Divine Providence, which is antithetical to the Enlightenment’s views on God.

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Jefferson would be the last person that would hold a view simply because it was a view held "for thousands of years". His views were based on the best knowledge he had in the 1700's, 250 years later our knowledge has improved to realize that his views were wrong.
Jefferson, Madison, Wilson, Mason et al. studied history dating back before anno domini. A short list: the Constitution of the Roman Republic, Cardinal de Retz, the Achean Confederacy the Amphictyonic confederacy of ancient Greece, the Helvetic confederacy of 14th to 15th century, the Germanic confederacy, the Belgic confederacy, etc.

They studied the structural failures of governments over time. Jefferson’s views on government structure were based on thousands of years of history, and his best knowledge was based on thousands of years of history, not eighteenth-century knowledge. This knowledge is lost on 99.9% of anyone in this country today. Two-hundred and fifty years later, this country is operating not on improved knowledge, but operating on the exact premise that caused nations to fail over thousands of years. The Constitution protected the country from human nature, and human nature had not gotten any smarter or any better. All the failed nations thought they had improved knowledge and were superior to the past. They were wrong.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 02:19 PM   #87
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Jefferson did not have a view on race relations because the term “race relations” is a modern liberal buzz word and concept. ... <snip>

The term may be new but the concept is ageless.


There are no new views regarding sexuality other than from a liberal point of view ...<snip>

I would put long odds on you not being able to see the illogic of that statement

... My views are based on the intent of the Constitution. ...<snip>

Your views are based on what you would like to believe the intent was.



<snip> That concept came directly from Locke, and Locke got it from God. <snip>

Heavenly email, talking burning bush, Gabriel the messenger boy, how did he get the true scoop from god?
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Old June 5th, 2016, 02:26 PM   #88
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Hey, good morning. Now, kiss my ass.

Can you draw a big red X on it so he'll know where to begin?

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The year 2016 is not yet over genius.
Perhaps you should have said something along the lines of , "This is the best post of 2016 to date, or so far."
Now this is a serious lieberal here.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 02:29 PM   #89
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Can you draw a big red X on it so he'll know where to begin?



Now this is a serious lieberal here.
A lie? Holy Shit, you mean to say that 2016 HAS gone by already and I never noticed?
Which asshole won the election in November of 2016???
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Old June 5th, 2016, 02:40 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
.
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Jefferson did not have a view on race relations because the term “race relations” is a modern liberal buzz word and concept. ... <snip>

The term may be new but the concept is ageless.
The concept is new in the context I used. Here is the concept of race relations regarding Jefferson: It is none of the federal government’s business and neither the federal legislature, the executive branch, nor the federal judiciary have jurisdiction.

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There are no new views regarding sexuality other than from a liberal point of view ...<snip>

I would put long odds on you not being able to see the illogic of that statement
There are no new views regarding sexuality in the context I used other than a liberal point of view.

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... My views are based on the intent of the Constitution. ...<snip>

Your views are based on what you would like to believe the intent was.
My views are based on multi-thousands of pages of original source documents that explicitly stated the intent of the Constitution. Feel free to produce an equal amount of original source documents contradicting my statement if you want to dispute my statement. Your liberal Canadian feelings regarding how you wish American history was is not relevant.

Quote:
<snip> That concept came directly from Locke, and Locke got it from God. <snip>

Heavenly email, talking burning bush, Gabriel the messenger boy, how did he get the true scoop from god?
Feel free to produce any original documents by John Locke that contradict his Two Treatises of Government regarding the source of natural rights.

Your post reads like a twelve year old girl’s diary of how she wished the world was. That type of pedestrian non-argument is a crippling bore.
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