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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #1
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It'll pass the House, with support from both sides of the aisle. The battle will be in the Senate.



Contact your senator: http://www.senate.go...enators_cfm.cfm



Quote:
Ron Paul's Audit the Fed Advances



The House Oversight Committee easily cleared legislation Wednesday that would require a top-to-bottom audit of the Federal Reserve.



The bill, sponsored by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), was advanced by the committee on a bipartisan voice vote with no vocal opposition.



The measure, which has garnered 257 co-sponsors from both parties, would require the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to conduct a full audit of the Fed's operations, including its monetary policy deliberations, for the first time.



House GOP leaders have signaled that the audit bill would garner floor attention sometime in July. A similar measure from Paul a long-time opponent of the central bank and author of End the Fed was initially part of the Dodd-Frank financial reform law that passed the House. The final provision in the law required a GAO study of the Fed's emergency lending operations during the financial crisis, and the potential for conflicts of interest on the boards of the regional Fed banks.



Before the audit bill cleared the oversight committee on Wednesday, ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) attempted to introduce an amendment that would prevent the GAO from auditing the Fed's deliberations on monetary policy. Cummings withdrew the amendment after Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) voiced opposition, saying it "essentially guts this bill."



Issa maintained it was ironic that Congress took an intense interest in the $2 billion and counting in losses suffered recently by JPMorgan Chase when it "pales in comparison" to the Fed's multi-trillion dollar portfolio.



"It is long past time for a real audit," he said



Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has previously opposed congressional attempts to audit the Fed's monetary policy deliberations, saying it would expose the politically independent institution to lawmaker pressure.



Meanwhile, the Fed has sought to ramp up its public outreach, with Bernanke holding regular press conferences following policy decisions, and highlighting on its website how the central bank's activities are reviewed by independent auditors and investigators.



Republicans have become increasingly critical of the Fed's expansionary policies following the economic downturn, warning that its massive expansion of its balance sheet poses serious inflation risks.



Liberal Democrats have also ramped up criticism of the central bank, taking it on for bailing out huge financial institutions during the financial crisis. Most recently, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) launched a campaign to remove banking officials from the boards of the regional Fed banks, saying it presents a conflict of interest.



Liberal Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), a member of the oversight panel, also expressed support for the audit bill on Wednesday.



Attention on the Federal Reserve is growing amid signs that the recovery has stalled. With lawmakers dug in on major economic and fiscal issues, speculation is swirling that the Fed might act to step in and try to boost the economy.



The Fed has kept interest rates near zero for years, and has said it expects to do so through the end of 2014. It has also purchased hundreds of billions in securities, as well as reoriented its portfolio to load up on longer-term debt in further attempts to lower borrowing costs and spur the economy.



Most recently, the Fed announced it would extend the latter effort, dubbed "Operation Twist," through the end of the year.



Following the dismal May jobs report, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has refused to take any policy options off the table, though he has repeatedly said the central bank needs help from lawmakers to boost the economy.


http://thehill.com/b...-fed-audit-bill
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Old July 7th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #2
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Sounds like good news, so what are you going to talk about now on DTT?
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Old July 7th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Sounds like good news, so what are you going to talk about now on DTT?


Good news? That the bill will face great uncertainty in the Senate?



Be a good progressive and contact your senators. I'm sure a top-to-bottom audit of the Fed will reveal its criminal dominance and manipulation of the US government and economy.



Or, you can continue babbling about higher taxes and tariffs and stuff like that which won't make any significant differences as long as a group of private, unaccountable bankers are firmly in control of the US' government and economy.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341719454' post='412034

Sounds like good news, so what are you going to talk about now on DTT?


Good news? That the bill will face great uncertainty in the Senate?



Be a good progressive and contact your senators. I'm sure a top-to-bottom audit of the Fed will reveal its criminal dominance and manipulation of the US government and economy.



Or, you can continue babbling about higher taxes and tariffs and stuff like that which won't make any significant differences as long as a group of private, unaccountable bankers are firmly in control of the US' government and economy.


What a false sense of triumph. What will we find out from auditing the Fed that we didn't already know? That they're a corrupt, secretive, private oligarch? It's like psychoanalysing a group of murders. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for the audit but I don't expect any change of significant that will turn anything that we're worried about around.



Yeah and my economic babbling is what keeps you off the street with or without the comfort of the Fed.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341722168' post='412037

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341719454' post='412034']

Sounds like good news, so what are you going to talk about now on DTT?


Good news? That the bill will face great uncertainty in the Senate?



Be a good progressive and contact your senators. I'm sure a top-to-bottom audit of the Fed will reveal its criminal dominance and manipulation of the US government and economy.



Or, you can continue babbling about higher taxes and tariffs and stuff like that which won't make any significant differences as long as a group of private, unaccountable bankers are firmly in control of the US' government and economy.


What a false sense of triumph. What will we find out from auditing the Fed that we didn't already know? That they're a corrupt, secretive, private oligarch? It's like psychoanalysing a group of murders. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for the audit but I don't expect any change of significant that will turn anything that we're worried about around.



Yeah and my economic babbling is what keeps you off the street with or without the comfort of the Fed.

[/quote]



Thanks for the laughs....



Since you seem to claim some access to foreknowledge, tell me: What will we find out from auditing the Fed that we didn't already know?



The Fed never has been subjected to an audit as rigorous as your local sanitation district.



Quote:
...I'm all for the audit but I don't expect any change of significant that will turn anything that we're worried about around.


I consider returning the control of their currency to the people a "significant" goal, and I'm worried about the long-term consequences of the failure to do so. You're all so concerned with wealth inequality but fail to see than one way, one big way, wealth inequality is perpetrated is through manipulations of the money supply and the interest rates on loans.



You don't see this. It's not from any lack on my part to help you to see this, but despite my best efforts, you don't see this.



The worldwide pyramid of privately owned central banks having a monopoly on control of currency supply and interest rates, of which the Fed undeniably occupies the top floor, the capstone, provides a means of conquest more effective than blood on the grounds of war. The control of currency and interest rates, and thus the economies of most nations, rests in the hands of unelected, unaccountable, not subject to audit, private cabals of bankers who are answering to no one but themselves.



I'm trying my best to offer you, again, another way of looking at "the" problem. Be a good progressive and contact your senators urging them to support passage of this bill, H.R. 459. Encourage others to do the same. Help them. Tell your senators why you support H.R. 459. In fact Fayt, considering your understanding of the effects of wealth inequality, you do support this bill because it addresses "the" root cause of wealth inequality.



Wealth inequality is programmed from the very top of the economic pyramid. Wealth inequality is a means of control, power.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 07:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341726148' post='412042

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1341722168' post='412037']

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341719454' post='412034']

Sounds like good news, so what are you going to talk about now on DTT?


Good news? That the bill will face great uncertainty in the Senate?



Be a good progressive and contact your senators. I'm sure a top-to-bottom audit of the Fed will reveal its criminal dominance and manipulation of the US government and economy.



Or, you can continue babbling about higher taxes and tariffs and stuff like that which won't make any significant differences as long as a group of private, unaccountable bankers are firmly in control of the US' government and economy.


What a false sense of triumph. What will we find out from auditing the Fed that we didn't already know? That they're a corrupt, secretive, private oligarch? It's like psychoanalysing a group of murders. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for the audit but I don't expect any change of significant that will turn anything that we're worried about around.



Yeah and my economic babbling is what keeps you off the street with or without the comfort of the Fed.

[/quote]



Thanks for the laughs....



Since you seem to claim some access to foreknowledge, tell me: What will we find out from auditing the Fed that we didn't already know?



The Fed never has been subjected to an audit as rigorous as your local sanitation district.[/quote]



idk, we will just probably find out that they game trillions of dollars to other nations and banks, something that we didn't already know they were doing.





Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
I consider returning the control of their currency to the people a "significant" goal, and I'm worried about the long-term consequences of the failure to do so. You're all so concerned with wealth inequality but fail to see than one way, one big way, wealth inequality is perpetrated is through manipulations of the money supply and the interest rates on loans.



You don't see this. It's not from any lack on my part to help you to see this, but despite my best efforts, you don't see this.



The worldwide pyramid of privately owned central banks having a monopoly on control of currency supply and interest rates, of which the Fed undeniably occupies the top floor, the capstone, provides a means of conquest more effective than blood on the grounds of war. The control of currency and interest rates, and thus the economies of most nations, rests in the hands of unelected, unaccountable, not subject to audit, private cabals of bankers who are answering to no one but themselves.



I'm trying my best to offer you, again, another way of looking at "the" problem. Be a good progressive and contact your senators urging them to support passage of this bill, H.R. 459. Encourage others to do the same. Help them. Tell your senators why you support H.R. 459. In fact Fayt, considering your understanding of the effects of wealth inequality, you do support this bill because it addresses "the" root cause of wealth inequality.



Wealth inequality is programmed from the very top of the economic pyramid. Wealth inequality is a means of control, power.


I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341762192' post='412076

I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.



How?
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Old July 8th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341767085' post='412087

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341762192' post='412076']

I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.



How?

[/quote]



That's laughable Fayt. That's a "gary response." All I've done in this thread is to explain "how," and it's all I've done ever since you and I have discussed this topic.



Control of the currency and interest rates is power. Those who have a monopoly on that power aren't accountable to anyone. That power isn't used to create equality. That power is based on inequality, on manipulating the interactions of the haves and have-nots.



Saying that economic inequalities existed before the Fed is stating the obvious. Economic inequalities go back as far as human history goes. But, so what? Right now, in the USA and the world, an interlocking, international system of private bankers has achieved world dominance. You say, well yeah, but let's raise taxes and tariffs and everything will be OK, or at least, everything that matters will be OK.



You've put a price on yourself. Give me my tax increases and everything else you champion, and everything "that matters" will be OK. That belief demonstrates that you do not understand the power of central banks in private hands. I've tried my best to show you how wrong this is. I haven't succeeded.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341762192' post='412076

I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.




You always like to think you are one of a very few people who "get it" and everyone else is wrong.



Your views on the Bible, Christianity and the Fed have that in common
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Old July 8th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341767085' post='412087

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341762192' post='412076']

I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.




You always like to think you are one of a very few people who "get it" and everyone else is wrong.



Your views on the Bible, Christianity and the Fed have that in common


[/quote]



Now turn your attention inward, and address your own belief that you are one of those who "get it," while the majority of non-christian and even Christian humankind doesn't.



And, how about discussing the topic and not personalities, the tactic you employ routinely to poison threads. Thanks.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #12
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And, how about discussing the topic and not personalities, the tactic you employ routinely to poison threads. Thanks.




That's laughable Fayt. That's a "gary response."
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Old July 8th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341768361' post='412090

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1341767085' post='412087']

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341762192' post='412076']

I understand why the Fed is bad, you don't need to reiterate. This bill doesn't address those issues, it just shines some light on it. Wealth inequality is a cause of the manipulation of the tax code, destruction of unionization, and the lost of our trade sovereignty. We had wealth inequality before the Federal Reserve (i.e. 19th century The Guilded Age) and after its establishments.



Sooo, maybe they should had just attempt to pass a bill that nationalized the Fed again or something. Fayt supports this bill anyhow, there's nothing like giving a wild pig a bath for a day.


Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed. These are the issues that create partisan strife that keeps citizens' focus off of the Fed, keeps citizens thinking the other party is the problem, and provides solid cover for the Fed's influence on the national and world economy. No, you aren't aware of why the Fed is bad. You just say you are, but your responses always show, you're not.



Face it, you are willing to sell yourself and your country to a group of unelected, unaccountable, never audited, system of banks that are privately owned and have a monopoly on the money supply and interest rates, just as long as taxes and tariffs are raised, unionization is increased, and we regain our "trade sovereignty" whatever that means. Every American citizen is a prisoner of these bankers, and you are OK with that as long as our cell is remodeled.



Again, you don't get it. I walk away from this, again, knowing I've done my best to help you understand the root cause of national and worldwide economic problems. But you and most citizens don't get it.



Maybe you will someday.



How?

[/quote]



That's laughable Fayt. That's a "gary response." All I've done in this thread is to explain "how," and it's all I've done ever since you and I have discussed this topic.



Control of the currency and interest rates is power. Those who have a monopoly on that power aren't accountable to anyone. That power isn't used to create equality. That power is based on inequality, on manipulating the interactions of the haves and have-nots.



Saying that economic inequalities existed before the Fed is stating the obvious. Economic inequalities go back as far as human history goes. But, so what? Right now, in the USA and the world, an interlocking, international system of private bankers has achieved world dominance. You say, well yeah, but let's raise taxes and tariffs and everything will be OK, or at least, everything that matters will be OK.



You've put a price on yourself. Give me my tax increases and everything else you champion, and everything "that matters" will be OK. That belief demonstrates that you do not understand the power of central banks in private hands. I've tried my best to show you how wrong this is. I haven't succeeded.

[/quote]



No No No, you said "Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed." How will bad economic policies be prevented like the examples I posted above if the Federal Reserve is out of the picture? What you're pretty much saying is that there will be no inequality if the Fed is no more. Also when I stated that there have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you? I stated the obvious because you sometimes refuse to take the obvious into account. The government needs to be funded to pay for programs, institutions, regulations, and infrastructure, that makes us a civilized nation. We mostly do that with trade barriers, taxes, democracy at the work place (unions). With or without the Fed if we don't look out for our economic sovereignty and well being, we will be no different from a 3rd world country like Somalia, Zimbabwe, or Afghanistan.



You explain bad
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Old July 8th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341770148' post='412100

Control of the currency and interest rates is power. Those who have a monopoly on that power aren't accountable to anyone. That power isn't used to create equality. That power is based on inequality, on manipulating the interactions of the haves and have-nots.



Saying that economic inequalities existed before the Fed is stating the obvious. Economic inequalities go back as far as human history goes. But, so what? Right now, in the USA and the world, an interlocking, international system of private bankers has achieved world dominance. You say, well yeah, but let's raise taxes and tariffs and everything will be OK, or at least, everything that matters will be OK.



You've put a price on yourself. Give me my tax increases and everything else you champion, and everything "that matters" will be OK. That belief demonstrates that you do not understand the power of central banks in private hands. I've tried my best to show you how wrong this is. I haven't succeeded.


No No No, you said "Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed." How will bad economic policies be prevented like the examples I posted above if the Federal Reserve is out of the picture? What you're pretty much saying is that there will be no inequality if the Fed is no more. Also when I stated that there have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you? I stated the obvious because you sometimes refuse to take the obvious into account. The government needs to be founded to pay for programs, institutions, regulations, and infrastructure, that makes us a civilized nation. We mostly do that with trade barriers, taxes, democracy at the work place (unions). With or without the Fed if we don't look out for our economic so sovereignty and well being, we will be no different from a 3rd world country like Somalia, Zimbabwe, or Afghanistan.



You explain bad


You comprehend worse, much worse.



No No No, you said "Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed." How will bad economic policies be prevented like the examples I posted above if the Federal Reserve is out of the picture. What you're pretty much saying is that there will be no inequality if the Fed is no more.



That's not what I'm saying. I see that we have problems with our economic system, our taxation system, as you do. I've said, without removing control of the currency and interest rates from the worldwide cartel of international bankers, we've not addressed the root cause of booms and busts, which always benefit the rich. Fractional banking creates wealth inequality, creates the ability to make winners and losers.



Also when I stated that there's have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you?



Not at all. There's been wealth inequality for all of recorded history. However, the Fed has failed in its job to stabilize the value of currency. It has created numerous boom and bust cycles with its monetary policies. I said so what because whatever forces created wealth inequality in the past, the force behind it all now is the Fed and the worldwide banking cartel which presently controls the central banks of most countries.



I stated the obvious because you sometimes refuse to that the obvious into account.



Absolutely false, pure projection..



The government needs to be founded to pay for programs, institutions, regulations, and infrastructure, that makes us a civilized nation. We mostly do that with trade barriers, taxes, democracy at the work place (unions). With or without the Fed if we don't look out for our economic so sovereignty and well being, we will be no different from a 3rd world country like Somalia, Zimbabwe, or Afghanistan.



As long as unelected, unaccountable. secretive, never audited, private bankers control our currency and interest rates, and lend money at interest to the US Treasury with money it creates from nothing, when the US Treasury could create currency to cover its debts and shortfalls, there will be no economic sovereignty, just an illusion of such.



Now be a good progressive and write your senators. Tell them to remove the veil of secrecy behind which the Fed has operated for 99 years. Take it a step farther. Tell them you believe the control of currency should be returned to the US Treasury, returned to the people. And tell them, if we don't do this, the US is headed for third-world status.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341774574' post='412135

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1341770148' post='412100']

Control of the currency and interest rates is power. Those who have a monopoly on that power aren't accountable to anyone. That power isn't used to create equality. That power is based on inequality, on manipulating the interactions of the haves and have-nots.



Saying that economic inequalities existed before the Fed is stating the obvious. Economic inequalities go back as far as human history goes. But, so what? Right now, in the USA and the world, an interlocking, international system of private bankers has achieved world dominance. You say, well yeah, but let's raise taxes and tariffs and everything will be OK, or at least, everything that matters will be OK.



You've put a price on yourself. Give me my tax increases and everything else you champion, and everything "that matters" will be OK. That belief demonstrates that you do not understand the power of central banks in private hands. I've tried my best to show you how wrong this is. I haven't succeeded.


No No No, you said "Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed." How will bad economic policies be prevented like the examples I posted above if the Federal Reserve is out of the picture? What you're pretty much saying is that there will be no inequality if the Fed is no more. Also when I stated that there have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you? I stated the obvious because you sometimes refuse to take the obvious into account. The government needs to be founded to pay for programs, institutions, regulations, and infrastructure, that makes us a civilized nation. We mostly do that with trade barriers, taxes, democracy at the work place (unions). With or without the Fed if we don't look out for our economic so sovereignty and well being, we will be no different from a 3rd world country like Somalia, Zimbabwe, or Afghanistan.



You explain bad


You comprehend worse, much worse.



That's not what I'm saying. I see that we have problems with our economic system, our taxation system, as you do. I've said, without removing control of the currency and interest rates from the worldwide cartel of international bankers, we've not addressed the root cause of booms and busts, which always benefit the rich. Fractional banking creates wealth inequality, creates the ability to make winners and losers.



Also when I stated that there's have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you?



Not at all. There's been wealth inequality for all of recorded history. However, the Fed has failed in its job to stabilize the value of currency. It has created numerous boom and bust cycles with its monetary policies. I said so what because whatever forces created wealth inequality in the past, the force behind it all now is the Fed and the worldwide banking cartel which presently controls the central banks of most countries.[/quote]



That just doesn't make sense, you just don't know history and lack economics understanding. It's like you're blaming the ink in the ink pen for your bad hand writing besides blaming yourself, to use a bad analogy. Booms, bubbles, and then busts are not caused by the Federal Reserves, it's due to massive speculation and deregulation from creating hot money by massively cutting taxes on the rich.



Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Absolutely false, pure projection.



As long as unelected, unaccountable. secretive, never audited, private bankers control our currency and interest rates, and lend money at interest to the US Treasury with money it creates from nothing, when the US Treasury could create currency to cover its debts and shortfalls, there will be no economic sovereignty, just an illusion of such.



Now be a good progressive and write your senators. Tell them to remove the veil of secrecy behind which the Fed has operated for 99 years. Take it a step farther. Tell them you believe the control of currency should be returned to the US Treasury, returned to the people. And tell them, if we don't do this, the US is headed for third-world status.


I don't disagree and in fact I advocate for nationalizing the Fed, however blaming this mass inequality on the Federal Reserve and believing that only getting rid of the Fed will solve all of our economic problems is just plain false.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341789662' post='412166

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341774574' post='412135']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1341770148' post='412100']

Control of the currency and interest rates is power. Those who have a monopoly on that power aren't accountable to anyone. That power isn't used to create equality. That power is based on inequality, on manipulating the interactions of the haves and have-nots.



Saying that economic inequalities existed before the Fed is stating the obvious. Economic inequalities go back as far as human history goes. But, so what? Right now, in the USA and the world, an interlocking, international system of private bankers has achieved world dominance. You say, well yeah, but let's raise taxes and tariffs and everything will be OK, or at least, everything that matters will be OK.



You've put a price on yourself. Give me my tax increases and everything else you champion, and everything "that matters" will be OK. That belief demonstrates that you do not understand the power of central banks in private hands. I've tried my best to show you how wrong this is. I haven't succeeded.


No No No, you said "Partly correct, but these are causes after the fact of the influence of the Fed." How will bad economic policies be prevented like the examples I posted above if the Federal Reserve is out of the picture? What you're pretty much saying is that there will be no inequality if the Fed is no more. Also when I stated that there have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you? I stated the obvious because you sometimes refuse to take the obvious into account. The government needs to be founded to pay for programs, institutions, regulations, and infrastructure, that makes us a civilized nation. We mostly do that with trade barriers, taxes, democracy at the work place (unions). With or without the Fed if we don't look out for our economic so sovereignty and well being, we will be no different from a 3rd world country like Somalia, Zimbabwe, or Afghanistan.



You explain bad


You comprehend worse, much worse.



That's not what I'm saying. I see that we have problems with our economic system, our taxation system, as you do. I've said, without removing control of the currency and interest rates from the worldwide cartel of international bankers, we've not addressed the root cause of booms and busts, which always benefit the rich. Fractional banking creates wealth inequality, creates the ability to make winners and losers.



Also when I stated that there's have been inequality in the past without a Federal Reserve you said "But, so what?" Don't you think that's kind of disingenuous of you?



Not at all. There's been wealth inequality for all of recorded history. However, the Fed has failed in its job to stabilize the value of currency. It has created numerous boom and bust cycles with its monetary policies. I said so what because whatever forces created wealth inequality in the past, the force behind it all now is the Fed and the worldwide banking cartel which presently controls the central banks of most countries.[/quote]



That just doesn't make sense, you just don't know history and lack economics understanding. It's like you're blaming the ink in the ink pen for your bad hand writing besides blaming yourself, to use a bad analogy. Booms, bubbles, and then busts are not caused by the Federal Reserves, it's due to massive speculation and deregulation from creating hot money by massively cutting taxes on the rich.



Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Absolutely false, pure projection.



As long as unelected, unaccountable. secretive, never audited, private bankers control our currency and interest rates, and lend money at interest to the US Treasury with money it creates from nothing, when the US Treasury could create currency to cover its debts and shortfalls, there will be no economic sovereignty, just an illusion of such.



Now be a good progressive and write your senators. Tell them to remove the veil of secrecy behind which the Fed has operated for 99 years. Take it a step farther. Tell them you believe the control of currency should be returned to the US Treasury, returned to the people. And tell them, if we don't do this, the US is headed for third-world status.


I don't disagree and in fact I advocate for nationalizing the Fed, however blaming this mass inequality on the Federal Reserve and believing that only getting rid of the Fed will solve all of our economic problems is just plain false.

[/quote]



I never said returning control of the currency to the people would solve all of our economic problems, despite your dishonestly insinuating that is what I said. I've said, it's the first step, and without taking it, all the solutions proposed don't mean much in the longterm.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #17
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I disagree, it's an important step. I believe in the constitution about looking out 1st for our fellow man with the General Welfare Clause. If nothing can be done 1st with the manipulation of currency in economic down times, putting people back to work is just as important.



The same can be said if it's the other way around. You would be pretty upset if we nationalize the Fed, but still face high unemployment due to bad policies. I feel like that, just the other way around.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
I disagree, it's an important step. I believe in the constitution about looking out 1st for our fellow man with the General Welfare Clause. If nothing can be done 1st with the manipulation of currency in economic down times, putting people back to work is just as important.



The same can be said if it's the other way around. You would be pretty upset if we nationalize the Fed, but still face high unemployment due to bad policies. I feel like that, just the other way around.


You don't get it.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1341874277' post='412539

I disagree, it's an important step. I believe in the constitution about looking out 1st for our fellow man with the General Welfare Clause. If nothing can be done 1st with the manipulation of currency in economic down times, putting people back to work is just as important.



The same can be said if it's the other way around. You would be pretty upset if we nationalize the Fed, but still face high unemployment due to bad policies. I feel like that, just the other way around.


You don't get it.


That's not a response, you just stink in economics and understanding the Constitution.
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Old July 9th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1341875018' post='412549

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1341874277' post='412539']

I disagree, it's an important step. I believe in the constitution about looking out 1st for our fellow man with the General Welfare Clause. If nothing can be done 1st with the manipulation of currency in economic down times, putting people back to work is just as important.



The same can be said if it's the other way around. You would be pretty upset if we nationalize the Fed, but still face high unemployment due to bad policies. I feel like that, just the other way around.


You don't get it.


That's not a response, you just stink in economics and understanding the Constitution.

[/quote]



That's not a response, by your own measure.
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