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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #21
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"False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for everyone takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness; and when this is done, one path toward error is closed and the road to truth is often at the same time opened."
- Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex, Vol. II, Ch. XXI, “General Summary and Conclusion," p. 385 (1871)

Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection has been established by proof based upon empirical evidence and verified by genetic experimentation on plants and animals, and overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community. Contrast to this are the claims of "Creationists" paraded as science under the rubric of "Intelligent Design" that is based on the assumption that life was created, which, of necessity, assumes the existence of a "Creator." Such argument is mere speculation and inconsistent with scientific method, for it is nothing more than a presumption that is not evidence, much less proof. The same arguments and challenges to evolution advanced by the proponents of "Intelligent Design" were proved to have no support in the scientific community and ruled to be religious doctrine and not science. SeeTammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al., 400 F.Supp.2d 707 (M.D. Pa. 2005). To posit creationism as a theological explanation is one thing; but to posture it as science is unsupportable if not outright dishonest, and only reflects discredit upon religious belief.

How do you know the facts are false?

How do you know that the universe is a Cosmic accident?

you have no more proof that the Universe magically appeared like lucky Charms, that one that Believes that there is a Creator.

Now, But preventing all options to be discussed is very Closed minded

Liberals and Athiests today are no better than the Roman Catholic Church during the Dark ages.


You see.. Students should be taught all aspects then they can form INFORMED decisions.

I was told by a college professor in 1969 (I was a juniior in College) that Creation was a myth, because the Universe was always creating itself.. (aka Steady state theory).. in 1973 BEHOLD A REPORT WAS MADE PUBLIC BELL LABORATORIES FOUND THE 3 DEGREE KELVIN SIGNITURE OF THE MOMENT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED... (it could have been an accident, or it could have been by Design).. you prove your side (you cannot) I cannot prove mine..

but I look at the universe and have come to the conclusion it takes a HECK OF A LOT MORE FAITH to believe it was all an accident.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
How do you know the facts are false?

How do you know that the universe is a Cosmic accident?

you have no more proof that the Universe magically appeared like lucky Charms, that one that Believes that there is a Creator.

Now, But preventing all options to be discussed is very Closed minded

Liberals and Athiests today are no better than the Roman Catholic Church during the Dark ages.


You see.. Students should be taught all aspects then they can form INFORMED decisions.

I was told by a college professor in 1969 (I was a juniior in College) that Creation was a myth, because the Universe was always creating itself.. (aka Steady state theory).. in 1973 BEHOLD A REPORT WAS MADE PUBLIC BELL LABORATORIES FOUND THE 3 DEGREE KELVIN SIGNITURE OF THE MOMENT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED... (it could have been an accident, or it could have been by Design).. you prove your side (you cannot) I cannot prove mine..

but I look at the universe and have come to the conclusion it takes a HECK OF A LOT MORE FAITH to believe it was all an accident.

I have no problem having a discussion about ideas that are reasonable.

A 6,000 year old universe is not reasonable.

As soon as you (or more likely scientists studying the universe) have evidence of intelligent design that equals evidence of the big bang then I have no problem treating it as an equal theory.

I'm not holding my breath however.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I have no problem having a discussion about ideas that are reasonable.

A 6,000 year old universe is not reasonable.

As soon as you (or more likely scientists studying the universe) have evidence of intelligent design that equals evidence of the big bang then I have no problem treating it as an equal theory.

I'm not holding my breath however.
But that's only because that's the way God designed you.

And that, or variations, can explain EVERYTHING.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #24
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Orleans Parish School Board Bans Creationism And Texan 'New History' Textbooks | Addicting Info


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“No history textbook shall be approved which has been adjusted in accordance with the State of Texas revisionist guidelines nor shall any science textbook be approved which presents creationism or intelligent design as science or scientific theories.”


*


In case you’re unclear what it is the Orleans Parish School Board is referring to, it has to do with a controversy from last couple of years in which Tea Party fanatics rewrote the guidelines for Texan textbooks. They decided it would be more “American” if they downplayed the horrors of slavery and the South’s role in it and at the same time more or less removing Thomas Jefferson from the books altogether. Why Jefferson? Because he coined the phrase “Separation of Church and State.”
Utter nonsense, why don't we downplay the horrors of Nazi concentration camps now that we are at it?
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #25
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But that's only because that's the way God designed you.

And that, or variations, can explain EVERYTHING.
I know you are being sarcastic with your answer...

God is not an explanation....God is what you say when you don't have an explanation.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #26
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‘Mr. Kumar was the first avowed atheist I ever met. I discovered this not in the classroom but at the zoo. He was a regular visitor who read the labels and descriptive notices in their entirety and approved of every animal he saw. Each to him was a triumph of logic and mechanics, and nature as a whole was an exceptionally fine illustration of science. To his ears, when an animal felt the urge to mate, it said “Gregor Mendel”, recalling the father of genetics, and when it was time to show its mettle, “Charles Darwin”, the father of natural selection, and what we took to be bleating, grunting, hissing, snorting, roaring, growling, howling, chirping and screeching were but the thick accents of foreigners. When Mr. Kumar visited the zoo, it was to take the pulse of the universe, and his stethoscopic mind always confirmed to him that everything was in order, that everything was order. He left the zoo feeling scientifically refreshed.’
- Yann Martel, Life of Pi, Ch. 7 (2001)

Intelligent design is nonsense. If it had any philosophical merit, one might be able to suffer it; but it is simple nonsense. What matters is evidence: scientific data - not unsubstantiated belief. Evolution is a fact. We can verify evolutionary process in speciation by hybridization in both plants and animals. Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection has been proven on the basis of scientific evidence. Only a fool would cling to faith in the face of empirical evidence and proof of its false belief.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I have no problem having a discussion about ideas that are reasonable.

A 6,000 year old universe is not reasonable.

As soon as you (or more likely scientists studying the universe) have evidence of intelligent design that equals evidence of the big bang then I have no problem treating it as an equal theory.

I'm not holding my breath however.
Who said it is 6000 years old. You are taking the KJV interpretation.. of the word YOM as being day.

YOM his Hebrew for Period of Time.

is 1 billion years a period of Time.

Is 20 billion years a period of time.

Now I have a physics professor, that will give you a run for your money stating how a 6000 year old universe is possible.

It has to do with Gravity at the time of the "Big Bang" and the effect it has on the speed of Light.. You see Time and the speed of light are proportional.. Slower the speed of light. effects time. Gravity at the time of the Big Bang was massive due to all the mass we see in the universe being in a small space.. as it expanded the less gravitational effect on light thus time passes faster.

Plus you forget that the Creation story of Genisis is only the Reader's Digest verson (summary) of how the universe was created.

Then you have the Hindi God who if you follow the teachings the universe is created, Expands, Collapses and is recreated... over and over..

Both big Bang and Collapsing universe which are Religious theories are also valid Scientific Theories. The only Difference is Athiest think it is an accident, and those of Faith Believe we are here purposefully.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 05:15 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jaggers View Post
‘Mr. Kumar was the first avowed atheist I ever met. I discovered this not in the classroom but at the zoo. He was a regular visitor who read the labels and descriptive notices in their entirety and approved of every animal he saw. Each to him was a triumph of logic and mechanics, and nature as a whole was an exceptionally fine illustration of science. To his ears, when an animal felt the urge to mate, it said “Gregor Mendel”, recalling the father of genetics, and when it was time to show its mettle, “Charles Darwin”, the father of natural selection, and what we took to be bleating, grunting, hissing, snorting, roaring, growling, howling, chirping and screeching were but the thick accents of foreigners. When Mr. Kumar visited the zoo, it was to take the pulse of the universe, and his stethoscopic mind always confirmed to him that everything was in order, that everything was order. He left the zoo feeling scientifically refreshed.’
- Yann Martel, Life of Pi, Ch. 7 (2001)

Intelligent design is nonsense. If it had any philosophical merit, one might be able to suffer it; but it is simple nonsense. What matters is evidence: scientific data - not unsubstantiated belief. Evolution is a fact. We can verify evolutionary process in speciation by hybridization in both plants and animals. Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection has been proven on the basis of scientific evidence. Only a fool would cling to faith in the face of empirical evidence and proof of its false belief.
Why do you have so much FAITH in Darwin's THEORY?
Why do you think it is called a THEORY if it has been PROVED?

There are some facts in Darwins theories and there are some unproven conclutions.

Even IF all of his THEORIES proved true, that would still not exclude the posibility of FAITH and GOD being a fact too.

In FACT DARWIN was an AGNOSTIC, not an ATHEIST.
I lean in the agnostic, gnostic direction myself for I think both atheism and theism rely on far too many unproven conclutions. They are far too quick to assume evidence and proof despite there being so much data, and so many areas they have neglected to investigate.

Last edited by Nienna; May 15th, 2013 at 05:18 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #29
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Why do you have so much FAITH in Darwin's THEORY?
Why do you think it is called a THEORY if it has been PROVED?
Like many others who do not understand science you do not understand what the word "theory" means when it comes to science.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.



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In FACT DARWIN was an AGNOSTIC, not an ATHEIST.
I lean in the agnostic, gnostic direction myself for I think both atheism and theism rely on far too many unproven conclutions. They are far too quick to assume evidence and proof despite there being so much data, and so many areas they have neglected to investigate.
You also do not understand the difference between theism/atheism and Gnosticism/agnosticism

Theism/Atheism deals with the BELIEF in God.....If you believe in God (regardless whether or not you KNOW God) then you are a theist...if you do not believe in a god (regardless whether or not you know this for a fact) then you are an atheist.

Gnosticism/Agnosticism deals with KNOWLEDGE of God....if you have KNOWLEDGE of God (regardless if you believe in him or not) then you are a Gnostic...if you do not have knowledge of God (regardless of whether your believe in him or not) then you are agnostic.

I have no knowledge of god and I do not believe one exists...that makes me an agnostic atheist.

A person without knowledge of god but believes on exists is an agnostic theist.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #30
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“Evolution is often considered as something unexpected. Wouldn’t it be more natural, some antievolutionists ask, if everything would always stay the same? Perhaps this was a valid question before we understood genetics, but it is no longer. In fact, the way organisms are structured, evolution is inevitable. Each organism, even the simplest bacterium, has a genome, consisting of thousands to many millions of base pairs. Observation has established that each base pair is subject to occasional mutation. Different populations have different mutations, and if they are isolated from each other, these populations inevitably become more different from each other from generation to generation. Even this simplest of all possible scenarios represents evolution. If one adds further biological processes, such as recombination and selection, the rate of evolution accelerates exponentially. Therefore, the mere fact of the existence of genetic programs makes the assumption of a stationary world impossible. Evolution is thus a plain fact, not a conjecture or assumption.

It is very questionable whether the term “evolutionary theory” should be used any longer. That evolution has occurred and takes place all the time is a fact so overwhelmingly established that is has become irrational to call it a theory. To be sure, there are particular evolutionary theories such as those of common descent, origin of life, gradualism, speciation, and natural selection, but scientific arguments about conflicting theories concerning these topics do not in any way affect the basic conclusion that evolution as such is a fact. It has taken place ever since the origin of life.”


“What Evolution Is”
Ernst Mayr


(Although this thread concerns creationism, rather than evolution, it does seem to be a common occurrence whereby these topics tend to blend together in debate. What if, however, some creator does exist and he/she/it merely created the conditions by which biological evolution can occur?)

PS - And, i'll add, what if that creator is quite content, so to speak, with whatever outcome happens to occur as a result of creating the conditions by which biological evolution can occur...and does occur?

Last edited by baloney_detector; May 15th, 2013 at 06:02 PM.
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