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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #61
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Then why did god order Joshua to MURDER people?
Read my post, there is a higher law a moral or spiritual law for people more honest than yourself.

If you want the truth you will find it, but you are not looking for truth, you are looking for justification of lies and in that I neither can or will help you.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #62
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Then why did god order Joshua to MURDER people?
So...you DO believe!
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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #63
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Then why did god order Joshua to MURDER people?

He didn't
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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #64
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So it is with the Bible and the laws of God, the better we are the higher law we live by and the more blessings we can receive according to the law we live by.

The spiritual law or moral law taught of in the Bible is highest.
The commandments in the Bible or law of moses is lower, like the legal laws of man or ethics.
I have debated with many Christians and never have I heard one suggest that the 10 commandments were not at the pinnacle of God's laws.

And are you saying all of Moses' teachings are wrong? That too would cause apoplexy among most Christians I know.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #65
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Why do you have so much FAITH in Darwin's THEORY?
Why do you think it is called a THEORY if it has been PROVED?

There are some facts in Darwins theories and there are some unproven conclutions.

Even IF all of his THEORIES proved true, that would still not exclude the posibility of FAITH and GOD being a fact too.

In FACT DARWIN was an AGNOSTIC, not an ATHEIST.
I lean in the agnostic, gnostic direction myself for I think both atheism and theism rely on far too many unproven conclutions. They are far too quick to assume evidence and proof despite there being so much data, and so many areas they have neglected to investigate.
Not so fast...calling Darwin an agnostic. He owned a bible (old testament only) and was read that bible by his bedside at night in his old age. I would not label that an agnostic practice.

Interesting that the patriarch of evolution was a bible-thumper.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #66
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I have debated with many Christians and never have I heard one suggest that the 10 commandments were not at the pinnacle of God's laws.

And are you saying all of Moses' teachings are wrong? That too would cause apoplexy among most Christians I know.
The 10 commandments are the foundationfor God's law..

and the commanmdent is "Do not commit murder"

example Wars and self defence are not murder.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #67
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I have debated with many Christians and never have I heard one suggest that the 10 commandments were not at the pinnacle of God's laws.

And are you saying all of Moses' teachings are wrong? That too would cause apoplexy among most Christians I know.
You really want to discuss this here? Well I don't mind so until the mods stop us.

Read:
Matthew 22:36-40 ---the greatest commandment
2nd Corinthians 3:6-13 ---the law kills
Galatians 3:17-25 Christ is the law.
Galatians 5:2-5 Fallen from Grace if you are justified by the law, righteousness is by faith and the spirit.
Galatians 5:18 “If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law”
Romans 10:4 Christ is the END of the law
Matthew 5:17 ---Christ fulfills the law of Moses
Matthew 5:38-48 ---tooth for tooth law (of moses) has higher law to turn other cheek, love enemy and don't resist evil is the higher law.

There is much much more, but read this first and see what you understand.

I will say nothing of what christians have said to you in debates, that is all irrelevant to what we discuss. Lets just stick to what it actually says in the Bible.

I am not religious myself, meaning I don't support any religious organization but I believe in and love the Bible.

Last edited by Nienna; May 15th, 2013 at 09:11 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #68
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I have debated with many Christians and never have I heard one suggest that the 10 commandments were not at the pinnacle of God's laws.

And are you saying all of Moses' teachings are wrong? That too would cause apoplexy among most Christians I know.
Nienna is exactly right when she said... "The spiritual law or moral law taught of in the Bible is highest. The commandments in the Bible or law of moses is lower, like the legal laws of man or ethics."

The new testament is very clear that ALL laws from the old testament are already fulfilled. This means we no longer must live by them, including the 10 commandments. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, we live by the laws given to us, individually, by the Holy Spirit. If that happens to be an old testament law (e.g. one of the 10 commandments), then so be it.

I'll put it another way....if we tried to live by all laws people in the old testament "tried" to live by, we would fail; just like the old testament Jews did. If we believe that all the commands given to people in the old and new testament times are valid commands for us today, we'd be in complete chaos, following any given bible verse on any given day.

Many people (including Christians) read in the bible about people doing bad things, under God's approval, and believe that God somehow approves it for everybody. This could not be further from the truth. If it were true, then women would be wearing covers on their head in church and would not be allowed talk during service. The bible is a perfect blueprint for understanding God, not for following rules. The aforementioned Holy Spirit is now the purveyor of rules for us.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #69
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Not so fast...calling Darwin an agnostic. He owned a bible (old testament only) and was read that bible by his bedside at night in his old age. I would not label that an agnostic practice.

Interesting that the patriarch of evolution was a bible-thumper.
You are right Darwin even went to church regularly but he called himself and agnostic.

Religious views of Charles Darwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Darwin continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the local church,[13] but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[14] Though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he responded that he had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a god, and that generally

"an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind."[7] He went as far as saying that "Science has nothing to do with Christ, except insofar as the habit of scientific research makes a man cautious in admitting evidence. For myself, I do not believe that there ever has been any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities."[15]
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Old May 16th, 2013, 05:48 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Indy772012 View Post
Not so fast...calling Darwin an agnostic. He owned a bible (old testament only) and was read that bible by his bedside at night in his old age. I would not label that an agnostic practice.

Interesting that the patriarch of evolution was a bible-thumper.
Pre the republican made born again evangelism, Christians had no conflict with the theories of evolution and God. It's the 6,000 years old and man ran with the dinosaur crowd that disputes it..that, and it's one of the gull durn liberal secularism ideas.
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